Supercharger failure - Oak Brook Mall (dead Teslas?)

[Rocky_H]

Huh. You were doing so well right up until that final paragraph.

 

[outdoors]

There's two aspects to this:

• whether the end user could have done better
• whether Tesla could have done better

Some here are focusing so much on what the end user could have done better, just because "they should have known better." But I think some of it could at least be mitigated by Tesla as well.

For the example of initial charge being slow, the message about having to warm up could be made more prominent. There are already similar messages about it when supercharging today, but I would say in extreme cases something larger should pop up to be made more apparent.

Something similar could also be shown when starting to drive in similar conditions, in more extreme conditions the alert sound could play and a message displayed.

The infrastructure could have been improved as well; some of the stations did go offline.

This won't fix everything, but the goal is to reduce the impact to get the issues down to a manageable value.

But some here are doing too much victim blaming here which doesn't serve to solve the issue at all, but only makes people feel good about themselves or because they take any failure too personally here. I take it akin to a gas station not working when someone arrives with an empty tank. Yea the driver should have planned better, but that doesn't mean that the gas station shouldn't be absolved of any responsibility.

I will add another aspect to this:

Weather.

I also like to focus on individual words you have used. Victim. Let's make sure we are using the right use in this case.

Definition of VICTIM In this case. "One that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent." In this case weather was the force or agent if we want to call it that. One might like to make the case that Tesla tricked or duped in the case of using the word victim. Tesla did not do that. Tesla makes a good faith effort to provide services. So one can try to apply other forms of use of the word victim, but none of those apply.

Also a gas station has no legal responsibility to provide gas to you. Unless you are part of a protected class and are denied service you have no legal case to force them or to collect damages if you are denied a pump or fuel. The person arriving chose to come there with an empty tank. Assuming one could get gas. Yes one could assume that, but there is no guarantee of service or product through a contract. Most people do expect to get gas however, but no legal basis to do so.

Let's circle back to the weather again. Does any ICE car or truck remind people to plug in heater blanket, oil pan heater, or battery warmer? Not that I am aware of. The user manual in both the ICE and Tesla do have a mention about starting and using in cold weather. How battery may not be there or reduced. How many people read the manual? It is right there for everyone to see.

Be prepared. Often used words, not often implemented.

Sorry some expect perfection in this so called victim scenario. I have been a victim of the weather many times, yet I could blame others. In the end I am responsible for my self, and if I didn't prepare the only victim is myself from myself being duped by myself.

As far as victim shaming. Come on. If you look at my words of encouragement. I am not sure how you deduce that.

 

[jsight]

Also a gas station has no legal responsibility to provide gas to you. Unless you are part of a protected class and are denied service you have no legal case to force them or to collect damages if you are denied a pump or fuel.

I've seen stations shut down for weeks at a time due to issues with their underground storage tanks. They don't have responsibility to their customers for that. Their responsibility to their financial backing was likely a bigger issue.

Of course, there were three other stations within 1 mile of there. AFAICT, that's the real problem here. The network is just barely big enough for peaks during the best of times. Weather impact that makes it 50% or more worse is enough to cause issues.

The area needs a lot more sites and stalls.

 

[pilotSteve]

Be prepared. Often used words, not often implemented.

This truly is the crux of the issue.

 

[EfficientWatts]

Victim blaming does not solely mean someone adversely acted upon the victim. It also extends to areas of where the victim not necessarily doing anything wrong or maybe having a percentage of responsibility, but putting 100% on the person instead of other forces. ex. if you google "victim blaming defective product", you'll see lots of examples come up as such. (not saying Teslas are defective of course to be clear, but this is to just provide context) Trying to "gotcha" with a strict m-w definition lacks the context and nuance in how that phrase is being used today.

some people again also miss the point. in this thread there are some who focus too much on "the drivers should have done this. the drivers could have done this. this drivers should have known this." instead of asking "why they didn't know" or "why did they end up in the situation they were in?" because their solution of "they should have known better" doesn't solve the issue (which is where my phrase of victim blaming comes in) of why they don't know. not to mention issues with the infrastructure itself (more stations nearby)

things like the winter driver notification that Tesla sent out (https://www.tesla.com/support/winter-driving-tips) is a good example of education, but maybe they need to be more aggressive about the alerts in certain winter conditions, especially since emails and alerts can be dismissed.

edit: @outdoors i agree with your general sentiment that there's a lot more that could be taught especially during the winter about ev driving. i just wish more was said about the mechanism and ways to do so.

 

[Midnightsun]

Norway can do it then Chicago can do it!

Interesting read on why it works well in Norway. One of the reasons is 90% of EV owners there own homes and use home charging.

 

[outdoors]

Victim blaming does not solely mean someone adversely acted upon the victim. It also extends to areas of where the victim not necessarily doing anything wrong or maybe having a percentage of responsibility, but putting 100% on the person instead of other forces. ex. if you google "victim blaming defective product", you'll see lots of examples come up as such. (not saying Teslas are defective of course to be clear, but this is to just provide context) Trying to "gotcha" with a strict m-w definition lacks the context and nuance in how that phrase is being used today.

some people again also miss the point. in this thread there are some who focus too much on "the drivers should have done this. the drivers could have done this. this drivers should have known this." instead of asking "why they didn't know" or "why did they end up in the situation they were in?" because their solution of "they should have known better" doesn't solve the issue (which is where my phrase of victim blaming comes in) of why they don't know. not to mention issues with the infrastructure itself (more stations nearby)

things like the winter driver notification that Tesla sent out (https://www.tesla.com/support/winter-driving-tips) is a good example of education, but maybe they need to be more aggressive about the alerts in certain winter conditions, especially since emails and alerts can be dismissed.

edit: @outdoors i agree with your general sentiment that there's a lot more that could be taught especially during the winter about ev driving. i just wish more was said about the mechanism and ways to do so.

Well I think you have proved absolutely nothing about your exercise other than the inability to read, and use your downvotes.

In order to be victim blaming you must have a victim. Please show my how this it is possible your content above makes absoultley no sense. You are saying Tesla's are defective. The need to have all these idiot lights as my father called them. Tesla's have many warnings. Yet you want more. Are you sure you aren't Senator Ed Marky hiding behind this username?

You must have missed my point where I said these users were taught nothing. Then @Rocky_H said....this is very important..... Sir/Maam headed to ignore. I can't make heads or tails of what you are saying other than you want banners, maybe even a phone buzz on all Tesla owners telling them the freeze is coming. What is next Senator? Drivers education by Tesla? Seriously I think the lady from the NHTSA that hates Tesla left. Maybe you should apply.


Edit add: Does anyone think Tesla is slow walking superchargers? I sure don't. I also see here and there "we need or this place needs more chargers". I think that is a given. I think many people don't understand the leg work in getting a supercharger up to working. Way before the shovels hit the ground. Especially in an urban setting.

 

[jsight]

Edit add: Does anyone think Tesla is slow walking superchargers? I sure don't. I also see here and there "we need or this place needs more chargers". I think that is a given. I think many people don't understand the leg work in getting a supercharger up to working. Way before the shovels hit the ground. Especially in an urban setting.

IMO, Hertz got ahead of the curve a bit with some of this. It turns out that it is easier to add cars to a rental fleet than it is to add enough chargers to a city. They were also quicker than organic sales in some areas.

If anything, I might blame them. But either way, the fixes are mostly the same. Someone has to do the hard job of getting those chargers in. It sounds like Tesla has plans to do so, and lots of others are steadily joining in lately as well.

 

[TarmacSurfer]

I will add another aspect to this:

Weather.

I also like to focus on individual words you have used. Victim. Let's make sure we are using the right use in this case.

Definition of VICTIM In this case. "One that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent." In this case weather was the force or agent if we want to call it that. One might like to make the case that Tesla tricked or duped in the case of using the word victim. Tesla did not do that. Tesla makes a good faith effort to provide services. So one can try to apply other forms of use of the word victim, but none of those apply.

Also a gas station has no legal responsibility to provide gas to you. Unless you are part of a protected class and are denied service you have no legal case to force them or to collect damages if you are denied a pump or fuel. The person arriving chose to come there with an empty tank. Assuming one could get gas. Yes one could assume that, but there is no guarantee of service or product through a contract. Most people do expect to get gas however, but no legal basis to do so.

Let's circle back to the weather again. Does any ICE car or truck remind people to plug in heater blanket, oil pan heater, or battery warmer? Not that I am aware of. The user manual in both the ICE and Tesla do have a mention about starting and using in cold weather. How battery may not be there or reduced. How many people read the manual? It is right there for everyone to see.

Be prepared. Often used words, not often implemented.

Sorry some expect perfection in this so called victim scenario. I have been a victim of the weather many times, yet I could blame others. In the end I am responsible for my self, and if I didn't prepare the only victim is myself from myself being duped by myself.

As far as victim shaming. Come on. If you look at my words of encouragement. I am not sure how you deduce that.

Nailed it.

There’s this concept of “personal responsibility” that comes into play in just about everything in life. I’m a big believer in it, I was raised to have it and I raise my kids to have it, although it’s become an antiquated notion in our society today where everything must be someone else’s fault (with dollar signs attached thereto).

If you go out in sub-zero temperatures without some provision to deal with potentially being stranded, you’re asking for trouble - and you’ve brought it upon yourself. We surround ourselves daily with wonderful technologies and inventions that make life extremely convenient, but if those get stripped away for whatever reason, then what?

One needs to play the “what if” scenarios, assess risk, and make decisions based on that. Have backup plans. That’s the essence of “being prepared”.

 

[TarmacSurfer]

They've been taught now

You tend to learn one way or another, self/mentor-taught or universe-taught

As I used to tell my students (back in my CFI days), “good judgement comes from experience - and experience comes from bad judgement”.

The hope of course is that it doesn’t necessarily have to be YOUR OWN bad judgement… IOW learn from the mistakes and failures of others and develop good habits accordingly.

Hopefully a number of EV owners read about this incident and develop better planning and decision-making skills as a result.

 

[TomServo]

My son's first duty assignment in the USAF was to Minot AFB ND. He owned a 3-year-old Pontiac Sunfire (FI 4 cyl) that we prepped for that assignment while he was home on leave and based on info his unit sponsor sent him. So we did a complete service (all new fluids) fresh Mobil 1 full synthetic oil, a new Die Hard battery, safety gear, and added a Block Heater. He had already been told he had to live "off base" and as a Security Forces airman was fully responsible for getting to and from the base. He forgot to plug in his block heater one day and was late reporting for duty. He was issued a Letter Of Reprimand and never did that again.