Senators declare FSD deceptive/misleading.

[sleepydoc]

While watching the morning news I just saw a commercial that was showing near-accidents while Teslas were using FSD and at the end, it asked you to tell Congress to "shut it down". I did notice that most of the video clips were a year or older.

Did it also show people using their cell phones and asking people to ban cell phones? Cell phones cause orders of magnitude more accidents than FSD does!

 

[SCTes1aMan]

Did it also show people using their cell phones and asking people to ban cell phones? Cell phones cause orders of magnitude more accidents than FSD does!

It was showing exactly what you would expect and in each one, the driver took over safely, as they're supposed to. I thought it was a weak attempt but the first one I have seen on TV. It's funny they didn't bother to show any newer clips, not to suggest the system is perfect but it is better.

 

[sleepydoc]

It was showing exactly what you would expect and in each one, the driver took over safely, as they're supposed to. I thought it was a weak attempt but the first one I have seen on TV. It's funny they didn't bother to show any newer clips, not to suggest the system is perfect but it is better.

It’s clearly getting better but it also makes plenty of dumb mistakes (it’s still beta, after all) If someone wanted to find clips of it making mistakes they’d have no trouble at all. Heck, I sent clips to Tesla this morning on my way home from work!

 

[Bouba]

If useless legislation gets enacted because politicians want to be seen to be doing something, it could set road safety back years and be responsible for untold carnage on the roads...

 

[RSpanner]

Funny that these Senators are criticizing Tesla for repeated misrepresentations about FSD when many of the first FSD customers from 2016-17 can’t get any communication from Tesla, misleading or otherwise. Just check out the nearly 165 page current thread from those FSD customers who continue to be overlooked and forgotten. (“FSD’s Earliest Adopters Still Waiting”)

They would be thrilled if Tesla communicated with them, probably even if the communication was somewhat inaccurate. But Musk’s refusal to have any internal or external communications staff means all they get is the sound of crickets. The guy who wants to spend $40 bil to chat with Trump doesn’t have time to provide communication with his own customers.

Can't be truer, more so the last line.

 

[Mattemsmy]

I saw this same commercial about tesla fsd. Here is a screen shot of who approves this message. hate these politicians they all suck.

 

[Knightshade]

I saw this same commercial about tesla fsd. Here is a screen shot of who approves this message. hate these politicians they all suck.

He's not really a politician.

He's a guy who owns a competing software company, has been dumping $ into anti-FSD ads for months, and now realized you get cheaper ad rates if you are running for office. He has no interest in actually winning an election.

 

[Mattemsmy]

Yea I saw that but still he is a tool. in the end it’s still the drivers responsibility to control the car. It’s as bad as the government ignoring tesla. They started thus movement give Elon credit.

 

[MA128]

Simply put, "Autopilot" isn't actually autopilot as any reasonable person understands the term. Same for "Full Self Driving." The feature names themselves are misleading, not just Elon's tweets. Relying on fine print does not absolve Tesla of responsibility for misleading the public.

I'm really enjoying my new Model 3. That doesn't mean I have to like the way the company does business.

 

[sleepydoc]

Simply put, "Autopilot" isn't actually autopilot as any reasonable person understands the term. Same for "Full Self Driving." The feature names themselves are misleading, not just Elon's tweets. Relying on fine print does not absolve Tesla of responsibility for misleading the public.

I'm really enjoying my new Model 3. That doesn't mean I have to like the way the company does business.

Have you used Full Self Driving?

 

[MA128]

Have you used Full Self Driving?

Nope. Don't need to. Even Tesla - to its credit - calls it "beta."

 

[Knightshade]

Simply put, "Autopilot" isn't actually autopilot as any reasonable person understands the term.

1000% wrong.

It's among the most accurately named products on earth if you actually understand what autopilot is on an aircraft.

 

[drtimhill]

Simply put, "Autopilot" isn't actually autopilot as any reasonable person understands the term.

If you mean "autopilot" as in airplanes then I dont think you understand it. In almost all cases all the autopilot does is keep the plane on a direct heading from waypoint to waypoint. It's certainly far less capable than TACC and NoA in terms of its ability to react to and handle its environment.

 

[Dewg]

I saw a documentary called Airplane, and they showed autopilot is a blow up doll called Otto that could fly the plane. So I guess our definitions disagree.

 

[Ramphex]

If you mean "autopilot" as in airplanes then I dont think you understand it. In almost all cases all the autopilot does is keep the plane on a direct heading from waypoint to waypoint. It's certainly far less capable than TACC and NoA in terms of its ability to react to and handle its environment.

Real Autopilot is actually exactly that. TACC, NOA, Auto-Lane Change, etc.

A 100,000 pound plane carrying 100+ passengers could come out of the sky on an ILS approach, locking into glideslope, adjusting auto-throttle, and auto landing, while we can’t even switch lanes without disengaging the AP or paying $12k for Faux Self Driving.

Real autopilot is revolutionary, 3 dimensional plane control. Tesla autopilot is an adaptive cruise control lane assist with gimmicky naming to attract the audience.

 

[Knightshade]

Real Autopilot is actually exactly that. TACC, NOA, Auto-Lane Change, etc.

A 100,000 pound plane carrying 100+ passengers could come out of the sky on an ILS approach, locking into glideslope, adjusting auto-throttle, and auto landing, while we can’t even switch lanes without disengaging the AP or paying $12k for Faux Self Driving.

Real autopilot is revolutionary, 3 dimensional plane control. Tesla autopilot is an adaptive cruise control lane assist with gimmicky naming to attract the audience.

This is flat out false.

But don't take my word for it- here's the FAA telling you you're wrong.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_120-67.pdf

Autopilot. An aircraft system and associated sensors designed to provide automatic control of the pitch, roll, and, in certain instances, yaw axis of an aircraft.

It steers the plane. That's it. That is the definition of autopilot per the FAA.

A different system- Auto Throttle Control- controls speed (they define that just below in the same doc)

d. Auto Throttle System (ATS). A system selected by the crew to provide automatic engine thrust
control, as required, to achieve and maintain desired aircraft speed or vertical flight profile.

Systems that do more advanced stuff you describe are again different systems apart from autopilot

Kind of like how NoA is a DIFFERENT system apart from Teslas basic autopilot.

 

[Ramphex]

This is flat out false.

But don't take my word for it- here's the FAA telling you you're wrong.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_120-67.pdf

It steers the plane. That's it. That is the definition of autopilot per the FAA.

A different system- Auto Throttle Control- controls speed (they define that just below in the same doc)



Systems that do more advanced stuff you describe are again different systems apart from autopilot

Kind of like how NoA is a DIFFERENT system apart from Teslas basic autopilot.

You’re splitting hair here. Find me a 737 or an airbus today that comes with autopilot but lacks all the other features. Literally only has a heading hold feature, since that’s what you define as autopilot. Or are Tesla cars more like the Cessnas from 1960s of the current car market?

I don’t perceive autopilot as a singular feature, it’s a combination of features. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s just my personal opinion and I’m sure it’s also a very fitting opinion of the general public when anyone discusses “autopilot”, not a verbatim definition.

A pilot doesn’t just hold the yoke straight to keep a heading…. Ya kno

 

[Knightshade]

You’re splitting hair here.

No, I'm citing the federal authority on the topic directly debunking your claim.

Find me a 737 or an airbus today that comes with autopilot but lacks all the other features

...what?

FIRST you insisted AUTOPILOT did all those things on aircraft in general.



Now you're moving the goalposts to "ONE SPECIFIC PLANE has Autopilot PLUS A BUNCH OF OTHER FEATURES THAT ARE NOT AUTOPILOT but it's all totes the same thing!"

I don’t perceive autopilot as a singular feature, it’s a combination of features. Maybe I’m wrong

You are, as regards aircraft.

Again I just cited the FAA telling you that.

On a Tesla it's actually a combo of two, specific features.... steering within a lane and throttle control.

So Tesla AP does more than aircraft AP does-- on an aircraft you'd need both AP and ATS to do that.

Contrary to your claims it does less.


Again both have other automation features that are not part of autopilot that do other things too.

A pilot doesn’t just hold the yoke straight to keep a heading…. Ya kno

Since unlike you apparently I've actually flown aircraft I'm well aware of what a pilot does.

Also unlike you I'm aware of what Autopilot actually is, and is not

 

[Ramphex]

No, I'm citing the federal authority on the topic directly debunking your claim.





...what?

FIRST you insisted AUTOPILOT did all those things on aircraft in general.



Now you're moving the goalposts to "ONE SPECIFIC PLANE has Autopilot PLUS A BUNCH OF OTHER FEATURES THAT ARE NOT AUTOPILOT but it's all totes the same thing!"





You are, as regards aircraft.

Again I just cited the FAA telling you that.

On a Tesla it's actually a combo of two, specific features.... steering within a lane and throttle control.

So Tesla AP does more than aircraft AP does-- on an aircraft you'd need both AP and ATS to do that.

Contrary to your claims it does less.


Again both have other automation features that are not part of autopilot that do other things too.





Since unlike you apparently I've actually flown aircraft I'm well aware of what a pilot does.

Also unlike you I'm aware of what Autopilot actually is, and is not

Well since you know everything about what I’ve done and what I haven’t, we have nothing else to talk about here. We’ll agree to disagree. You live your life with a dictionary by your side to make sure to verbatim cite all the definitions of the words that you use, and I’ll defend the general public and their perception of what “autopilot” means.

 

[MA128]

The recent posts above - debating the meaning of "autopilot" - among knowledgable persons reinforces my point. The AVERAGE, REASONABLE person does not know or understand these distinctions. They just assume it is "auto," i.e. 100% self-functioning. This is why Tesla's naming convention is misleading.