P3D with MPP sports… what would you do next?

[Ohdoomed]

Hello!
I have a 2021 performance 3 with mountain pass performance (MPP) sport adjustable coilovers and MPP lower control arm bushings. I’m running MPP’s ride height recommendation and have as aggressive of an alignment as the stock parts allow. Michelin ps4s. Balance is Ok, albeit some understeer.

For spirited driving..

What would be the next suspension mod you would consider. With Perceptible change in driving response and feel being the general goal.

Thank you in advance for any and all input!

 

[Ohdoomed]

Research has me leaning towards sways…

 

[gearchruncher]

It appears you care about feel more than actual performance (max grip, min lap times).
Sways will do this for sure. They can make a car feel very alive. But on this car, with the very low CG, they can actually reduce grip.

If you care about actual grip, you want more camber, and then likely no sways, or just a minimal rear sway to tune your preference.

 

[Clover]

Looks great. I'd vote for lighter and wider wheels, though you may want to wait until you need tires for that.

 

[The Other Dan]

FUCAs and sways are about the only thing you don't have. For what your doing with the car you probably don't need rear toe/camber arms.

For your alignment, 0 toe up front with about 0.5deg toe in for the rear, you should be pretty good.

Lighter wheels will give you a bit better turning response, you might notice that on the back roads.

 

[tm1v2]

I'll throw in a vote for lighter wheels. I easily noticed the change in power steering response from swapping the Uberturbines for lightweight forged 18" wheels. And I was still on stock suspension then (not anymore). I also noticed the better efficiency (despite also moving to higher grip tires).

If you do get new wheels I also suggest more aggressive feeling tires. I know the PS4S are functionally an amazing street tire for their blend of grip, ride, and durability, but I think there are sharper-feeling tires if you are an aggressive driver and prioritize sporty feel over ride or tread life (like me).

Personally I would NOT get stiffer sways just for street use in this car. I've put stiffer sways on past cars, and in some cases really liked them, but those were very different cars, plus I was doing track days then. The Model 3 has such great weight distribution and balance, that I don't feel any need for stiff sway bars after upgrading the coilovers. I think stiffer sway bars would only make me slower over nasty real-world roads. The suspension independence I have right now with the stock bars feels great. If I wanted even stiffer (which I don't!), I think I'd rather try a stiffer coilover setup first before resorting to larger bars.

(Now for racetrack use I could certainly see upgraded adjustable sways being useful! I'm just talking street use here, same as the OP.)

 

[tm1v2]

Btw I haven't driven a Model 3 with upgraded sway bars so I could be totally wrong on them. I'm only extrapolating from past experiences.

 

[Ohdoomed]

Excellent stuff so far, guys and thank you very much. I’m gathering that the first direction I’m most looking is FUCA for adjustability and possibly wheels when I burn through this rubber. I’m going to have to read down the hole of wheel discussion now as I really like the look of larger wheels but I suspect the weight and performance comparison to smaller is a hard argument..

 

[Clover]

Excellent stuff so far, guys and thank you very much. I’m gathering that the first direction I’m most looking is FUCA for adjustability and possibly wheels when I burn through this rubber. I’m going to have to read down the hole of wheel discussion now as I really like the look of larger wheels but I suspect the weight and performance comparison to smaller is a hard argument..

The weight of wheels has differing takes from different people. Some were swear that nothing will improve suspension performance like a cut in unsprung weight and cutting it has huge advantages over reducing sprung weight. I've herd 7:1 ratio or all kinds of stuff that I have never seen any data to back up. They also say rotational unsprung weight is the best weight to cut. Other's say this advantage is overstated and while beneficial in suspension travel and braking, not the end all be all solution.

One thing is sure though, there is a reason pretty much every racing series limits tires and that is because people will stuff as much rubber under their cars as you will let them. There is only one set of items that make contact with the road and it determine the amount of grip/traction you have. Tires. Nothing other than driver skill comes close to impacting your limits.

Having said that, so far I have done nothing to my M3P other than a winter wheel and tire setup so I have no actual experience on this platform. I have built my own car though, and to be fair, I used pretty hefty solid urethane bushings all over it which I cut channels in for Greese, have double adjustable coilovers, fully adjustable upper and lower control arms, custom anti-swap bars, etc. So I'm not saying this stuff does not have a place or benefits, I'm just saying tires are important and wheel weight actually does play a significant roll in suspension performance as it is unsprung weight constantly in motion which needs to be controlled. The Tesla Performance wheels and stupid heavy. Not at all hard to find a set with a design you will like which weights much less. I think there are options out there that save close to 10lbs a wheel, which would blow a Miata racer's mind.

I guess I should mention that your tire alignment can play a huge role in the car's handling. Changing parts that allow you to dial that in how you would want could also make a huge difference for a reasonable price, so maybe that is the way for you to go until you do need new tires.

 

[dfwatt]

Hello!
I have a 2021 performance 3 with mountain pass performance (MPP) sport adjustable coilovers and MPP lower control arm bushings. I’m running MPP’s ride height recommendation and have as aggressive of an alignment as the stock parts allow. Michelin ps4s. Balance is Ok, albeit some understeer.

For spirited driving..

What would be the next suspension mod you would consider. With Perceptible change in driving response and feel being the general goal.

Thank you in advance for any and all input!

Would get their control arm package that includes the rear toe, camber, traction and trailing arms and then the adjustable front upper control arm which allows you to adjust camber on the front. From there depending on what your tolerance is for increased nvh you might consider the compression arm bushing.

 

[squareblock]

Add 0.2 degrees of camber to the rear. That should wake you up when turning.

 

[The Other Dan]

Add 2.0 degrees of camber to the rear. That should wake you up when turning.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Ohdoomed]

Thank you ! I appreciate your input

 

[dfwatt]

The weight of wheels has differing takes from different people. Some were swear that nothing will improve suspension performance like a cut in unsprung weight and cutting it has huge advantages over reducing sprung weight. I've herd 7:1 ratio or all kinds of stuff that I have never seen any data to back up. They also say rotational unsprung weight is the best weight to cut. Other's say this advantage is overstated and while beneficial in suspension travel and braking, not the end all be all solution.

One thing is sure though, there is a reason pretty much every racing series limits tires and that is because people will stuff as much rubber under their cars as you will let them. There is only one set of items that make contact with the road and it determine the amount of grip/traction you have. Tires. Nothing other than driver skill comes close to impacting your limits.

Having said that, so far I have done nothing to my M3P other than a winter wheel and tire setup so I have no actual experience on this platform. I have built my own car though, and to be fair, I used pretty hefty solid urethane bushings all over it which I cut channels in for Greese, have double adjustable coilovers, fully adjustable upper and lower control arms, custom anti-swap bars, etc. So I'm not saying this stuff does not have a place or benefits, I'm just saying tires are important and wheel weight actually does play a significant roll in suspension performance as it is unsprung weight constantly in motion which needs to be controlled. The Tesla Performance wheels and stupid heavy. Not at all hard to find a set with a design you will like which weights much less. I think there are options out there that save close to 10lbs a wheel, which would blow a Miata racer's mind.

I guess I should mention that your tire alignment can play a huge role in the car's handling. Changing parts that allow you to dial that in how you would want could also make a huge difference for a reasonable price, so maybe that is the way for you to go until you do need new tires.

Good post and discussion about all this. I can only add that even folks who are not car junkies like for example my wife can tell the difference between the stock wheels and wheels that are forged and 8 lb lighter. Especially in terms of ride over really bad surfaces. Handling differences are more subtle but I can detect that in terms of the car changing directions and turn in being dynamically a little better.

 

[phantasms]

I don’t mean to go down a rabbit hole but I would absolutely love lighter wheels on my car but I have not seen any aftermarket wheels I like visually as much as the stock Ubers. They’re either just kind of meh or too bling or too much fast and furious vibes. Help me fall in love with a light setup. It’s almost Summer tire time over here!

I too have MPP sport coils and they are mint.

 

[tm1v2]

I don’t mean to go down a rabbit hole but I would absolutely love lighter wheels on my car but I have not seen any aftermarket wheels I like visually as much as the stock Ubers. They’re either just kind of meh or too bling or too much fast and furious vibes. Help me fall in love with a light setup. It’s almost Summer tire time over here!

I too have MPP sport coils and they are mint.

@phantasms I'm with you on the Uberturbines look, I think they look fantastic on the Model 3. I wouldn't want them on a random car out there but Tesla nailed the look for this car. I was sad to take mine off, but reality is 18" wheels are way less stressful with the stuff we drive on.

I stored the Uberturbines for more than a year in case I wanted to put them back on, but eventually I realized no, never going back to them. I needed to free up some storage space (so I can swap between summer and winter 18s) and that was enough impetus to finally sell them.

YMMV. The only situation I'd put the Uberturbines back on would be selling the car, and that's not even in the picture. I like this car too much, especially with the suspension upgrades. It's a keeper for us.

I still get to enjoy seeing other Model 3's rocking the Uberturbines.