Battery Swapping Event - Live Updates

[SFOTurtle]

"Those that opt to keep the new battery pack must pay the difference in cost — which is worked out based on the difference in age between the new and original batteries."

Did Elon say anything else about how the difference is calculated? Does a person at the swap center run a diagnostic on the battery?

Can I swap an 85 for a 60? Just how many 60 and 85 batteries would they need to keep in storage at these $500K superswapping stations?

Edit: It looks like they're planning to keep 50 of these at each stop. Does the $500K include the cost of building and storing all of these loaner batteries?

 

[riceuguy]

Am I missing something, but is the price of a swap good for the entire journey, i.e., multiple swaps for every stop at a swapping station, or just a one-time swap? If the former, how does this possibly make sense? A 60 owner would be paying multiple times to swap on a journey of 450 miles. And if it's only good for one time, how many people would seriously go through this effort and pay in lieu of a free (and relatively fast and painless) SC stop?? Seriously, I think I'm missing something.

It makes plenty of sense for a quick trip (e.g., from Austin to Dallas for the day), but less sense for a full-on road trip. I think it's for a pretty specific purpose, and long road trips are not that purpose.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The fee is estimated at $60 - $80 each time.

Actually this article makes it clear:
"Musk said the service would be offered for the price of about 15 gallons of gas at the going local rate...That's currently about $60-80, Musk figured."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrog...-swap-tech-coming-this-year/?partner=yahootix

The option to keep the new battery is quite interesting. Wonder how they will determine the cost difference.

 

[Johan]

I also think they basically solved the whole issue of how to and when to upgrade to newer battery tech and how to exchange your battery when it ages: even if you never swap while travelling you go to the swapper once every 5-8 years and keep the new battery, which is both newer and also perhaps higher capacity. You get "billed the difference" which is unlikely to be as much as $12000.

 

[scottf200]

Tesla Performs Live Demo of Model S Battery Swapping – 90 Seconds (w/video)

6 mins ago by Jay Cole
http://insideevs.com/tesla-performs-live-demo-of-model-s-battery-swapping/

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Am I missing something, but is the price of a swap good for the entire journey, i.e., multiple swaps for every stop at a swapping station, or just a one-time swap? If the former, how does this possibly make sense? A 60 owner would be paying multiple times to swap on a journey of 450 miles. And if it's only good for one time, how many people would seriously go through this effort and pay in lieu of a free (and relatively fast and painless) SC stop?? Seriously, I think I'm missing something.

My sense is that you are paying the same price as you would pay for premium gas if you were driving a car that gets ~20mpg. We'll have to wait for the actual prices to see for sure, and we don't know yet if you are paying a flat fee that assumes you have a nearly empty battery, or if they are going to charge based on actual usage.

Since they aren't attempting to do this at a big discount compared to gas, they can just charge for actual usage and make money. But its possible it's just a flat fee that assumes the battery you are swapping is empty, which makes it not such a good deal if the battery is mostly full.

 

[SFOTurtle]

It makes plenty of sense for a quick trip (e.g., from Austin to Dallas for the day), but less sense for a full-on road trip. I think it's for a pretty specific purpose, and long road trips are not that purpose.

Can a 60 not make this trip with a stop at a SC? If so, how about just stopping to get a coffee or drink and a stretch while you SC for free?

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Juicy details:
Tesla 90-Second Battery Swap Tech Coming This Year - Forbes

50 batteries at each station. Wow.

Not surprising. The minimum in my model was 30, and they are starting in high traffic corridors first.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Can a 60 not make this trip with a stop at a SC? If so, how about just stopping to get a coffee or drink and a stretch while you SC for free?

For some trips you don't want to stop, esp. if you are in a hurry. Swapping allows you that option of not waiting, SC doesn't.

 

[tdiggity]

I also think they basically solved the whole issue of how to and when to upgrade to newer battery tech and how to exchange your battery when it ages: even if you never swap while travelling you go to the swapper once every 5-8 years and keep the new battery, which is both newer and also perhaps higher capacity. You get "billed the difference" which is unlikely to be as much as $12000.

If it's based on the age difference, then it could be this:

$12,000 for an 85kwh replacement in 8 years, or 96 months = $125/month. Then, take the difference in your battery pack and the swapped pack, and pay $125 per month difference.

 

[Bubba]

When Elon refers to 15 gallons of gas, I am almost positive he is referring to the price of premium gas, the same used in an S Class Mercedes.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I also think they basically solved the whole issue of how to and when to upgrade to newer battery tech and how to exchange your battery when it ages: even if you never swap while travelling you go to the swapper once every 5-8 years and keep the new battery, which is both newer and also perhaps higher capacity. You get "billed the difference" which is unlikely to be as much as $12000.

That's a very good point. People no longer have to worry about their battery and not being able to get a replacement or getting outdated technology. They can just use the swap infrastructure to swap and pay the difference!

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Can I swap an 85 for a 60? Just how many 60 and 85 batteries would they need to keep in storage at these $500K superswapping stations?

Edit: It looks like they're planning to keep 50 of these at each stop. Does the $500K include the cost of building and storing all of these loaner batteries?

The storage is practically free since they take up very little space. But the $500k does not include the cost of the batteries. Those are being paid for by Tesla, though in many cases (especially in California) Tesla will be contracting with local electric utilities, and those utilities will be helping to pay for the batteries thanks to the grid storage contracts.

 

[SFOTurtle]

I also think they basically solved the whole issue of how to and when to upgrade to newer battery tech and how to exchange your battery when it ages: even if you never swap while travelling you go to the swapper once every 5-8 years and keep the new battery, which is both newer and also perhaps higher capacity. You get "billed the difference" which is unlikely to be as much as $12000.

Well, if there is a way that someone with a 60 could swap to an 85 and pay the difference, that might generate some interest in those of us who bought 60s but would consider upgrading to an 85 (or something even with more capacity in the future). I am dubious it would be that easy, but what do I know? And wouldn't it be a whole heck of a lot cheaper just to go to a Tesla service center to do this rather than spending $500K (and presumably other labor costs to monitor and oversee the swapping)?

 

[Johan]

If it's based on the age difference, then it could be this:

$12,000 for an 85kwh replacement in 8 years, or 96 months = $125/month. Then, take the difference in your battery pack and the swapped pack, and pay $125 per month difference.

That may well be it. Will be interesting to see if/how they try to price in wear on the battery - i.e. both number of charge cycles and well as perhaps aggressive driving v.s. careful driving, amount of range charging etc... Or does the whole concept of babying your battery now become obsolete?

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Can a 60 not make this trip with a stop at a SC? If so, how about just stopping to get a coffee or drink and a stretch while you SC for free?

Obviously that's what folks will often do. But it escapes me why folks seem to think that this is not an attractive option if you don't feel like waiting. The cost is essentially the same as if you still have an ICE, and plenty of people manage to do road trips right now while paying for gas.

 

[tdiggity]

That may well be it. Will be interesting to see if/how they try to price in wear on the battery - i.e. both number of charge cycles and well as perhaps aggressive driving v.s. careful driving, amount of range charging etc... Or does the whole concept of babying your battery now become obsolete?

I hope they keep it simple. It would seem that they can use the simple calculation for the first 8 years since they won't have to worry about too many people abusing new batteries. And after a few years, they'll get the cost of batteries down where the simple calculation is still net positive for them.

 

[Bubba]

Since they aren't attempting to do this at a big discount compared to gas, they can just charge for actual usage and make money. But its possible it's just a flat fee that assumes the battery you are swapping is empty, which makes it not such a good deal if the battery is mostly full.

I agree. This will only make sense for owners that fit all three of these qualifications:

1) In a hurry
2) also well below 50% on their battery pack and need more range to reach their ultimate destination
3) money to burn

Since the fee is paid during each swap, I think total cost of $120 to $160 (two swaps) if you come back for your original battery that will be filled for you while you were gone.
However on the return trip, I think you will have to wait longer if you are getting your specific original battery returned to you.
Would the automated computer know this? Or will an attendant be there to verify the original battery is returned? Details we need to wait for.

 

[The Froq]

Think about this. Tesla has got the complete supplychain now!

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

When Elon refers to 15 gallons of gas, I am almost positive he is referring to the price of premium gas, the same used in an S Class Mercedes.

Off hand I don't think I've driven any luxury car lately that doesn't require premium. I know that my 535i does. Of course, thats a scam, but its still what is "required" by the manual.