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Good find but the modules themselves are different lengths. The ones with more cells have more structure and vice versa, however the 79 grams figure does give an upper bound.

Interesting if ugly/cynical thought experiment from a different optimisation idea I have for the 2020(s) Roadster: The 200 kWh figure is indicative of a notably poorer efficiency than the Model 3, and even the S, particularly given that the vehicle is noticeably smaller in dimensions even than...

After furtively searching for it, all across the EV news sites and all the breakdowns so far, despite the very cells obviously being physically separable and in the hands of people analysing the battery pack (Mmmmmph! Hmmm! THIS picture), nobody has seemingly bothered to measure the cell mass...

Hate to put a downer here but... Tesla might have achieved battery energy density and cost breakthroughs “We think we have come up with some pretty cool breakthroughs on energy density and cost of the battery pack. It’s going to be pretty great.” "As for the cost at the pack level, Musk sees...

Good explanation with luxuries not scaling down as well. Interesting point about the inherent lack of automation - Vans are nearly always involved with single or very few people carrying out their duties per van, as opposed to a truck depot where a small team may deal with a large fleet of...

Not sure where you got the idea I was talking about the falcon doors. @WannabeOwner Is there anything else to the non-luxury argument that isn't already applicable to the Semi?

And the Tesla Semi isn't feasible? Have you seen a Euro van?

Same logic applies to pickup trucks.

It sort of weirds me out that they would consider a pickup before hand. I know they're popular in the States, but it's still a far worse choice of vehicle over a van, surely.

Some points I'd like to make: The shape of vans are well suited to battery packs. Titanic potential market in Europe. The cost and range has kind of been proved practical due to the Semi and it's pricing. Work vans are far better suited for promotion to fleet managers. If not vans, how is it...

210 Wh/kg at LTO rates is actually a way better optimisation for charging convenience than Tesla's chemistry. The Model 3 battery is 150 Wh/kg pack level.

I believe it was about something else - the Model X. Even that would only be 250 kWh max. At 2.5 miles per kWh pessimistically, that's still 620+ miles.

@ssiegler The worst thing about this story of a 500kWh battery is this: even if one assumes that the battery technology in question has good enough numbers of power and energy and weight and cost to fit in a car, it still makes more sense from mathematical optimisation to have less: If the...

Nice one. Cheers @jkn.

To address the first point, the 60kWh existed entirely for cost reasons and the maximum they could pack with old cooling was 85kWh. By some time around 2015, they pushed it to 90kWh due to the Model X and new cooling, and very soon after it was 100kWh for both, with either new cells or late...

We haven't actually seen much evidence of that from the Model S since Elon said that statement. The 100 kWh pack's cells are still only 250 Wh/kg.

Daimler E-FUSO Vision One (slightly streamlined, flat face, 11 tonne payload) => 300 kWh / 220 miles = 1.4 kWh/mile. Daimler unveils heavy-duty all-electric truck concept with ‘up to 220 miles’ range Cummins AEOS (34 tonnes overall, 75k lbs, Class 7 (drayage?) ) => 140 kWh / 100 miles = 1.4...

First of all, it's 18650. Secondly, the Semi pack is less controversial than the 2020 Roadster's, especially in volume. 800kWh at ~80% cell mass proportion, 280Wh/kg x 0.8 = ~ 225 Wh/kg = 3,550 kg (7,800 lb). Tractor mass at 9100 kg (20,020 lb). Pack mass proportion of = 3550/9100 = 39%...

That was my assumption on my geometrical analysis of the Semi in that thread - roughly 18.25 Wh. It's also very much 46% larger than the result for the the 18650, 12.4 Wh. I would assume 3.65V average, it seems to give more accurate figs. However a lot of people are assuming that the 2170...

@Rashomon I really wish posts could be edited... the numbers are correct but the sentences are misleading. 1) "12.4 Wh of usable energy" should be "12.4 Wh of absolute energy". 2) "Dividing 12.4 Wh by this number gives 253 Wh/kg." refers to 12.4/0.049, not 12.4/49.

SK Innovation's NCM 811, by any chance? I am guessing the volumetric density is going to be 800 Wh/L at 300 Wh/kg, due to a consistent Li-ion density of approximately 2 2/3 kg/L, and judging from the difference between the older types and upper limits of NMC 811. (that is, 250Wh/kg & 670Wh/L...

@electracity Sorry, that should be " <1.7 kWh/mile".

If you take a look at the following thread, we're pretty confident that the Semi is <850kWh & <1.7 Wh/mile with Model 3 cell assumptions. Lets work out the Tesla Semi-Truck Technical Specs If it indeed true that the Semi and the 2020 Roadster have an improved chemistry, why wasn't it obvious...

I believe there has been anecdotal evidence of people sitting "high up" in the Roadster which is what started off the whole idea in the first place.

@mongo @arnis Found this link on Reddit's Tesla Motors subreddit (terrible place...) Seems to be more analytical evidence that the Semi is indeed closer to 1.5 kWh/mile than 1.75 - 2. It is best-case though. Tesla Semi is reasonable, part 1 | Selenian Boondocks Come to think of it, an...

There's good bloody reason for our pessimism. Wikipedia has not changed it's estimate for max Lithium-ion at 265 Wh/kg for years. Battery University is a similar story. Elon Musk's claims about improvements were quite close to industry max energy density at the time. Model 3 cells show a...

Astonishingly similar to the results I extrapolated earlier by geometry. However I'm still skeptical that it can do exactly 80% in 30 minutes. I think from 10% to slightly over 55% is more realistic for NCA/NCM.

I feel that no one here seems to be asking the most important and vital trucking question of all: Is the front trunk sufficiently large enough to store a prostitute?

Thing is, if the loads in question are divisible, like foodstuffs, appliances, materials, (and not a product designed to absolute weight limit, like a turbine genset optimised to the lowest unladen weights) there's an easy way around that issue. That kind of optimisation is to minimise cost...

Looking at typical pack energy densities: 85kWh Model S pack => 140+ Wh/kg Model 3 LR pack => 150+ Wh/kg 100kWh Model S pack => 170 Wh/kg? Alta Motors (dirtbike manufacturer) pack => 180 Wh/kg ( Alta Claims Its Redshift MX Has Battery With Highest Energy Density, Better Than Tesla...

Cheers Farmertom. To answer, depends on which Model S model you're talking about. I'd say a factor of 10 explains everything reasonably well - think an 80kWh historical average with 110kW-135kW Supercharging, as compared to 800kWh with 1200kW Megacharging, 1.5C as Mongo earlier said. Since...

I thought those were black spaces at first but it looks like it could have been dark coloured/non-graphic'd enclosures for the cooling. Note that the truck graphic doesn't have as much detail as Kman's "ninja" video earlier in the thread if i recall, of the motorised back section, similar to...

Little frustrating to see that so many are still assuming the truck has as much as one megawatt hour. For cost reasons the Semi isn't likely to use anything other than 2170 cells (in production at least), and I am sure it's not physically possible to have more than 800-850kWh from the...

I'll see what I can do

Sorry, ignore that tyre width sentence, and numbers should be 560kWh, 1120kWh, which makes even more sense.

Hello there all. I work as a CAD engineer in the UK. I've carried an odd little exercise for myself using screenshots of the video Tesla put on Twitter. Due to the amount of corroborating information on that picture, the fact that the battery modules are quite obvious as containing one cell...