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The iwatch is going to be released with a solid state battery very soon using a process developed at applied materials. Still too expensive for most applications but I'm guessing we will see solid state EV cells in about 4-5 years. The gigafactory cell is going to be 4.9V max NCA with a 1/3rd...

The big question is can the Tesla connector do Vehicle to grid as well as CCS? It seems possible with both AC and DC pins CCS maybe be able to DC charge from solar/dc_converter and be grid tied at the same time. I would like Tesla to also enable vehicle to vehicle charging. Tesla (JB) has said...

you are forgetting 4 wheel torque vectoring EVDrive Electric UTV Terra Torque Drive AWD Torque Vectoring Technology Demonstrator Video on Vimeo

The panny nca data sheets say 3.65V nom it is a 3.3Ah cell pack is over 85kw but you can only pull about 80kw out (in the car). This is "brick insurance"

Just curious? What is the longest time your car has spent fully charged in range mode? Overnight? A few days? Less than an hour?

A Bit About Batteries | Blog | Tesla Motors The other significant factor that affects calendar aging is the charge state of the battery during storage. At higher charge states cells lose capacity faster. This is a second reason why we have limited our maximum state of charge to 4.15V/cell...

Average and minimum brick Ah should will correlate very closely in a normal pack. This does not support your theory at all and I don't see any evidence of a sudden drop in capacity. All: I wouldn't waste your time on this anymore. This guy is just setting himself up for a lawsuit against...

Sound pretty normal to me. NCA cells drop to 75% after a few years and then stabilize and flatline at 70%. Mileage does not mean much. Calendar life means everything. Imagine for a moment your car has 70% capacity after 20 years? Have you established that brick 8 is in fact an outlier? Every...

Clearly the x-ray tech was talking about EM fields. Better not ride an electric bus, trolley, hybrid train, hybrid ship, etc designed with no shielding in mind like today. If no connection between riding the trolley and cancer has been made yet in over a century of use, it never will be made. We...

I think the pack come close to doubling the torsional rigidity of the Model S chassis when installed in the vehicle So it is not dead weight like most other EV packs. Also remember it has been designed for robotic swapping and to serve as a ballistic shield.

Great question :)

Look I said it was not truly lossless but if you want to know more about this type of balance schemes those are the keywords. Even true shuttling is not truly losses. What Tesla has done is approach lossless balancing without resorting to real shuttling. If it was simply lighter use of the bleed...

that is simply what you think. it is not that simple. it in effect increases the voltage to bricks not only reduces. and it balances module voltage as the bmb uses power. more balancing uses more power. there is no such thing as lossless balancing of course but that is what this schemes are...

Yes! You get it! This the "active impedance" control is only enabled towards end of charge when the charge is slowing the the string voltage is more stable. Is it totally lossless? No of course not. But is is safer than true shuttling and it is more efficient than simple bleed balancing.

Yes. Each BMB on each module has it's own target balance voltage (TVB) for each string in the module, but each BMB also sends it's highest TBV value to the BMS which then resets the global highest TBV of all the modules. Shuttling is a bad way to describe what is going on. You could call it...

Inter-module active balancing is done by shuttling during charging but this shuttling is not done in the traditional dangerous way. Balancing is done by increasing the voltage not only bleeding. Bleeding is not an efficient way of balancing as it just creates heat. Virtual shuttling is done by...

That sounds about right. When the pack is not connected to the vehicle the max intentional self discharge rate is 50w (10W preferred) using the bleed resistors When connected to the vehicle it can use the load from the heater and fans and what not to intentional self discharge up to 20kw (10kw...

-------------- I know I'm seeing the top of the negative end of the cell but what I'm not certain about is if that end is an added endcap on the "raw" cell or has been added on over a "standard" panasonic cell. In the Tesla patent where they describe adding a the C-shaped or O-shaped vent. When...

The longest life would come from from charging the pack to 51% and then discharging down to 49% and then recharging back to 51%. Never driver more than a few miles before recharging. Hahaha just kidding In the real world...if possible...you should shoot to use only about 60% of your pack...

Interesting....they are using a off the shelf TI chip to do monitoring and bleed balancing. What does the host controller board look like? They are using RF-coupler instead of an opto-coupler for isolation Are they any other BMS or BMB boards? The more pics the better. Thanks :)

That sucks you had to break it down. It doesn't sound like the pack will be able to be rebuilt by robots easily... I'm still trying to figure out what is going on with the negative terminal on each 18650. It looks like there is some kind of end cap on each cell. There is also a central oval...

They did not touch the battery because 1) what would suggest they do? 2) they are not partners with Tesla. Any part they touch voids the warranty. Opening the battery def voids the warranty on it. Tesla could argue changing the radiators voids the battery, inverter, and motor warranty but they...

It would be hella dumb if it was not for the fact loud straight cut gears are more efficient than quiet helical gears I like the rear end but yeah all front ends without grills look funny after being programmed your whole life by the world as it is. While I dont love the Saleen front end what I...

Looks like the GigaFactory may use the 22700 cylindrical cell format instead of the current 18650 format. "He also plans to add one-third more energy volume per battery by using larger cylindricals, known as 22700s, according to Navigant." Anyone have the original source from Navigant? Very...

Here is the follow up where they say they did not wrong E-Auto-Härtetest: auto motor und sport unterstreicht harte Testmethoden - AUTO MOTOR UND SPORT "Addition, there was a further temperature-controlled laboratory testing at TÜV Süd at minus seven degrees, which also loads the battery power...

There are two new global power standards emerging, 48v dc and 380v dc. Maybe look into data center equipment that supports this standard: http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300100_300199/3001320301/02.01.01_40/en_3001320301v020101o.pdf Some of the gear that supports this standard is already...

That is true but also consider the case of a short circuit, the fuse will blow faster on 690v than 400v as the current will be higher. For an equal overload current the voltage drop across the fuse is independent on system voltage, but in the case of a short circuit higher voltage means higher...

Those are some good points. I just feel like are patents are bad for society in a lot of ways. I think it is great Elon realizes this also but just wish Tesla as a company were more Open in general. Who would not love to swap a P85 drivetrain into an BMW E9 or use the pack for their solar off...

you can spin this if you want EUR-Lex - 32002R1400 - EN - EUR-Lex (26) In order to protect effective competition on the market for repair and maintenance services and to prevent foreclosure of independent repairers, motor vehicle manufacturers must allow all interested independent...

Note the fuse is rated at 690v but used at a little over 400V. I think this means the heat developed is less and the fuse is slower to pop. Clearing factor (amps squared seconds) would be ~.6 running these fuse on 400V. The fuse has to clear the voltage across it, it is not simply Amps squared...

We don't see it this way, embracing open source philosophy really means they should be embracing open source hardware. BMW and Tesla and the community at large can all SHARE and work on better motors, inverters, BMS's, chargers TOGETHER. We are not talking about open source software only. No one...

Don't be sorry this is a conversation that has to happen. I agree it was somewhat off topic. Now back to figuring out how to get a Model S pack to work outside of the car where it can do much good. If you listen to the naysayers they would tell you to recycle a perfectly good $40k+ pack. yeah...

What are you a lawyer? Trust it is in Tesla best interest to comply with the spirit of the law as intended. You too will be crying a different tune if Tesla were to go bankrupt (unlikely but not impossible) or when your warranty expires ---- Since June 19, 2011, the automobile industry in...

Yes! Being green is not about recycling. It is about permaculture. Making things last or resuing them. There is no more argument that you should junk your old car because of terrible mileage. The Model S can be kept on the road for hundreds of years. I'm being dead serious when I say that.

Clearly you have never bought any non OEM aftermarket parts to repair or upgrade a car. It will take time but aftermarket motor and battery and inverter upgrades or non OEM replacements will eventually become available for the Model S. You will change your tune when your warranty expires...

Wrong. Tesla used the word open source to describe their own patent maneuver. It is not other people creating this illusion "We believe that applying the open source philosophy to our patents will strengthen rather than diminish Tesla’s position in this regard."

Which makes it seem like a PR stunt more than anything else Not a sincere attempt to speed the transition. I agree they dont have to provide tech support but they could be doing much more than saying here use these patents because we dont patent the really important stuff anyway "We have...

Actually they are obligated to provide support in the form of service manuals to properly service and troubleshoot the car including the battery. They can't exclude the battery for safety reasons since it it the most valuble item on the car. It's like saying you cant crack open your engine to...

Tesla has to walk the walk now that they are giving away all their patent to help speed the transition to electric drive What better way to do it than do show us how to make safe battery packs. A truely failsafe BMS/BMB is the holy grail and something desperatley needed at all levels of the ev...

The present invention includes two contemplated mechanisms for adjusting a brick 20 voltage. One is to decrease the brick 20 voltage by discharging the brick 20 by connecting a small load to the brick 20 (discharge mechanism). The other is to increase the brick 20 voltage and charge the brick 20...

You need to hack the service port. This may help: Some of the disclosed embodiments define and include a dedicated service port that allows for an electrical connection to the battery pack that is independent of CAN communication, separate from the electrical connection to the operating...

Hopefully wk057 can get to the bottom of this. I'm working on a quick conversation. I dont know the inner working but what I've been told is it is not a tradition bmsbms means battery mangagement system which also does the balancingor bms means battery monitoring system with no balancing at...

The BMS is connected to each brick of cells in parallel to monitor voltage, temp, etc using ONE PCB. A normal BMS would use the connections to each brick on THE SAME ONE PCB to ALSO do the balancing (either by shuttling or bleed resistors). If that board fails/malfunctions it is a big problem...

I wonder if Tesla is changing the reserve capacity over time? They wouldn't do that would not do that would they? Like sell you a bigger pack but only give you access to some of it? What if 0 miles means 10 kWh on a new pack but they next year it means 9kWH. To the user they would see "no...

Leaving you pack overnight with a range charge is a very bad idea. Never do this. When you need to range charge time it so the charge finishes when you leave. About the worst thing you can do to a pack is leave it fully charged.

Yeah that was JB's idea. The whole case of a cell is connected to negative which is why you wrap the whole cell for safety but it kills heat tranfer. With proper mounting you only need a ring The present invention eliminates the adverse effects of the dielectric material covering the...

They are not heavily customized other than removing the wrapper and adding a vent to the negative terminal. My bet is Tesla uses the NCR18650BE cells in the Model S with a minimum capacity of 3300 mAh (closer to 3650). The grade B cells are resold as the BE cell with 3300 nominal rated capacity...

What you are describing is a redox shuttle additive not compatible with NCA cells.

Rob Ferber. He built the 18650 pack for the T-Zero at AC propulsion and then went on to found Tesla. Now he builds 18650 packs with no welds (flex pcb with foam cusion also like Neal Saiki). You will note Tesla is trying to patent flex PCB bus bars but with cooling on the neg terminal. Both the...

Can you get a picture of the negative terminal of an individual cell? The Rav4EV uses the 2900 mAh NCR18650PD with a C shaped vent designed to break the bond wire on the terminal when it opens. The C shaped vent is pictured in the Tesla patent but more recent patents also describe a circle...