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Do you need a reason to hate our petroleum based economy? Here's one - Lac Megantic At 01:15am EDT on July 6, 2013 in the picturesque little 6000 person town of Lac-Mégantic, located in the Eastern Townships of the Canadian province of Quebec an unattended 73-car freight train carrying crude...

But the problem is that you're not delineating between two separate and distinct issues: permission to sell the product, and the mode of selling it If the state deems that it is in the best interests of its constituents that the dealer network remain in place (for whatever logic good or bad...

Millions of people I am referring to are the stakeholders currently in the auto industry. I am not disagreeing with what many people on here are arguing in principle. And I do not believe the dealership model is the "best" way to go either. The reality is that a car dealership owner will...

You make a big assumption when you say "the people" want this. You don't necessarily know this. I know you're going to point out to surveys saying "87% support the idea of direct to consumer selling" - but you need to realize that those people being surveyed are not having the ENTIRE question...

I can answer this question quite easily for you. Its because they lie. This isn't about "deserve". They don't deserve this protection. I think they deserve to be slaughtered. But the fact is that the slaughter might be massive, the pigs aren't quite ready to just walk into the...

But it can (rightly) be argued that NADA isn't necessarily attempting to block outside competition. It is my understanding that Tesla is free to set up dealerships anywhere they want. We can all take this wonderfully self-righteous view that the "free market" should reign and Tesla ought to be...

I agree with you. That is why I don't think going to federal court is going to solve any issue. Each state that is opposing this have different issues. I would argue that the biggest ones that legislators have is the loss of jobs/tax revenue/political contributions, ideology, as well as their...

Nigel, I have run dealerships for the better part of my life (as I said in earlier posts) including a family owned dealership. Forbes does not run auto dealerships. Profit centers, from highest to lowest earning are as follows: 1. Used car sales 2. New car sales 3. Business office 4. Service...

But you're missing my point. If you think that the full extent of our opponent's opposition is simply only going to come from consumer protection laws then you're being short-sighted. They are going to draw upon each and every single resource available to them, not only NADA. You've focused on...

So are you trying to say that this law was not implemented to protect dealers from the direct to consumer sales model in principle? I am arguing that this is the REAL intent of these laws. You are suggesting that the intent of these laws is ONLY to protect these dealers from their own...

See, now here is something that I've been thinking about a lot. What is the definition of a "dealership", and is there a way that this can be defined so that the main decision makers (legislators) are appeased. Do we really understand what the concerns are of legislators in NC and Texas are...

But the argument that is being used by our competitors is that there is harm by allowing Tesla to implement this model when none of the other competing manufacturers are allowed to adapt in order to compete. It brings harm to everyone else. And the crux of the issue is that these laws were...

For sure. And don't underestimate how difficult a problem like this may be to overcome. I'll give you an example of another company that is having problems getting into a state: the UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship) and its inability to have the sport of mixed martial arts legalized and...

But the issue is that at some point our politicians decided that it was important to protect the dealership framework - and it is the intent of these laws which Tesla supporters are failing to recognize. Every other auto manufacturer may have wanted to market direct to consumer for years - but...

[/LIST] I won't disagree with you on the reality of this. However, there will exist laws that (on the surface) are there to supposedly protect the consumer - and it will be argued by our opponents that the dealer framework must stay in place because they have abided by these requirements as...

Thank you… Thank you… …and thank you. What I find distressing from some of the other comments on this board is this implication that somehow I am supporting our opponents?!?! I personally want nothing more than to see the complete destruction of the dealership and auto industry as it...

I’m not sure why you’re directing a hostile tone towards me. I’m going to guess that you’re misinterpreting my position on some level (ie. you think I am disagreeing with your opinions regarding the dealership culture? Maybe you missed some of my comments because I've said I can't stand that...

And make no mistake - NADA is definitely afraid of the loss of the ICE industry as well because they obviously have everything invested in their current product and it would be difficult for them to have a new competitor change the game for them. But some dealers can adapt to change if they...

But can it be argued that anyone is restricting Tesla’s ability to do business? No one is saying that Tesla cannot sell cars in their jurisdiction. What they are saying is that there are rules in place to protect the consumer and industry stakeholders, and that Tesla must adhere to those rules...

What argument are you going to take up the federal judiciary chain? It appears that everyone replying in this thread is assuming that if the Supreme Court makes a positive ruling in favor or Tesla on the basis of fair market and "anti-competition" that this will solve the problem. But if you...

But this is where I'm getting at. The laws that are being argued is that there is some implied necessity for dealerships. The arguments are being perceived by Tesla supporters as being anti-Tesla, but I am suggesting that we (Tesla supporters) could be being very short-sighted by simply making...

Of course lawmakers "shouldn't" be siding with either side. But to suggest that they don't is naïve to put it gently. We know that this is not the way of the world we live in, so we need to choose our fights wisely and know we can win when we do.

Its all fine and dandy for everybody here to argue that the rule of "free market" must win out. But you are all making one incredibly massive assumption, which is that you have limitless resources with which to take on this fight. Its been said that much of this technology has been out there...

I am not suggesting there be negotiations with dealerships. Rather, I am suggesting that we clearly understand the concerns of our legislators. Just because one model does not meet our standards for "value" does not mean that it doesn't meet the standards for other consumers, an economy or a...

I am not suggesting that what you are saying is wrong at all. I agree with you. But I am arguing that it would be incredibly naïve to simply ignore the possibility that these legislators/dealers may have a legitimate basis for their position. For example, dealerships in many jurisdictions are...

Tesla has obviously woken the tiger. Obviously it was easy enough to see that the other oil industry and also the worlds' competing auto manufacturers were always going to be putting up a fight, but Tesla knew what it was getting itself into with respect to these competitors and by all accounts...

I don't suppose anybody thought to take a copy of the article's text? It appears that Forbes has removed the article from the site. Maybe your onslaught of criticism debunking Upbin's position embarrassed them into pulling the story?