Removable / swappable pack options? - Page 3

stopcrazypp · 04-24-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarpedOne

roblab:

That's because "such swappable battery packs" idea just stinks.
It sounds cool until you start to think about it and read a thing or two about batteries.

Exactly. Thats why generic battery swap stations just won't work in practice.

But swappable batteries are useful nevertheless. You buy an electric car and pay for the battery or lease one or both of them. Both, car and battery are yours but you can still go and rent a bigger battery when you think you're going to need it and swap it with yours. Your battery is stored at the battery-rent center and is waiting for you to return the rented one.

Yes, I think Tesla's model is closer to renting than what was previously mentioned. You get your battery back after your rent, not someone else's battery.

Again the only way generic battery swapping will work is if there is some kind of subscription fee (leasing or Better Place's pay by the mile plan) so you don't own the battery.

Tdave · 04-24-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopcrazypp

You get your battery back after your rent, not someone else's battery.

Unless some unscrupulous station owner gives you an old battery and keeps yours. Hopefully the packs will have electronic identification recognizable by the car computer.

doug · 04-24-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozman

I read/heard/watched somewhere (sorry can't remember where) Elon saying it was equivelent to a $35,000 gas guzzler and that you could have the option to "feel the benefit straight away by leasing".

I think when he said that, he meant with respect to cost of ownership. Money you would save on gas and also that the mechanically simpler car should depreciate less. That lower level of depreciation would be reflected in the cost of the lease. That was the argument I took him to mean anyway. I think it's on one of the videos I took at the Model S LA party.

ozman · 04-24-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roblab

I personally don't get it.
If I treat my battery pack gently, I might get twice the life. If someone else runs his pack to zero every other day, and charges it full with a quick charge every time, both known to lower a pack's life, all he has to do is go to the swap station??? They'd better have a way of telling what condition the battery is in and CHARGE for the deterioration somehow. And NO way am I going to want to swap my cared-for battery with anyone's throw away swap. If it's worth $35K why are we rewarding someone who's trashing it??
Rob

You are still considering it from a perspective in which you've paid for the battery pack. "my battery pack" wouldn't apply if you were swapping them regularly, and had a guarantee that you'd never get a battery pack that had been depleted past say 80% usability. Tesla could (and I imagine certainly would) easily monitor deterioration of the battery pack on each swap and assign the amount of deterioration to a user and charge them appropriately. All these things are relatively minor issues.

TEG · 04-29-2009, 05:57 PM

I suppose this topic needs a few mentions of battery swap ideas from days past.

(VFX had posted this link before)
GreenMotor: Mercedes: battery swapping is so last century - green car and electric vehicle blog - formerly Auto-IT.co.uk

JMC 1997 proposal for battery swapping

TEG · 05-13-2009, 10:09 AM

US firm unveils new battery tech for electric cars - Business | DailyAdvance.com

TEG · 06-29-2009, 02:50 PM

Another old mention of battery swap here:

Sounding Circle: Li-Ion tzero Electric Vehicle

Quote:

17 Oct 2003 @ 11:09 by waalstraat
I probably shouldn't give this away free but I am not that materialistic. It seems to me everybody has missed the boat on electric cars...sorry about the mixed metaphor. What they should do is place the batteries in an easily removeable position (removeable by some type of robot)than revise their ideas of filling stations. You would pull in next to a bunch of cabinets with filled batteries and shelves for weak or empty batteries. You robot would activate when you parked in the proper position, lift your battery out, measure how filled or empty it is and replace it with a filled one. You would be charged for the difference between your trade-in battery and the filled one...after you left, your trade-in would be moved to be charged up or it would be charged up in place....of course this is a rough idea and would have to be refined...Don't thank me yet world...I'm sure someone will find a flaw in the scheme or paradigm.

TEG · 07-17-2009, 02:26 PM

Hybrid Cars: Study: Battery Swapping the key to electric cars

tdelta1000 · 07-19-2009, 09:24 AM

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum but have been lurking for some time. Here's a link to the Agassi Better Place

TEG · 10-15-2009, 04:21 AM

Tesla Model S Added to List of Battery Swap Capable EVs - All Cars Electric

Quote:

...the Model S engineering, "Is not at all wedded to Better Place." Instead, stating that the design of an easily removable battery also makes the installation process at the factory easier, likely reducing costs...

REPORT: Tesla Model S was designed with battery swaps in mind

Quote:

...The two companies' technologies could work together... but don't have to. Considering that Tesla is planning on selling the Model S, due in late 2011, with different battery options (a base model with 160-mile range pack; and then more expensive packs with 230-mile and 300-mile ranges), figuring out how to swap these different batteries in random locations seems like a logistics problem of tremendous proportions...