Charging Station standards - Page 12

TEG · 04-20-2009, 01:40 PM

http://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-t/oth...200101PPTE.ppt
http://www.ecs-five.ch/parkcharge/do...KES+and+EV.pdf

Quote:

e-mobility Berlin / MINI-E-Berlin...both projects will use the CEEplus system...

So, I think we have competing standards:

IEC 62196-1 <== e-mobility. 400V 3-phase. Primarily Europe
IEC 62196-2
SAE J1772 <== Single phase AC. Primarily USA and Japan

Basically SAE is USA, & IEC is Europe. They tend to say that they will coordinate, but then end up doing different things.

http://www.ecosilly.com/2008/12/02/c...g-in-vehicles/

Quote:

The {J1772} connector may also become the standard in Japan, where the SAE and the Japanese standard body are making good cooperation. Although a proposal has been made to incorporate the SAE connector interface in IEC standards although Italy and Germany are proposing alternative connectors. (Design for single-phase power is problematic for countries where 3-phase is also used, notes Cyriacus Bleijs, Chairman IEC TC69.)

Here was an attempt at a collaborative concept.

vfx · 04-20-2009, 11:12 PM

BYD (?)

TEG · 04-21-2009, 10:18 AM

VEVA - Report on Activities of Committees for Standards on Charging Infrastructure

Quote:

After some name googling on who's who and is involved with the SAE J1772 standards committee for EV charging, I found that Yazaki is giving a report next week to the committe on design considerations. Yazaki make lots of automotive connectors. There is also current discussion on Level 3 fast charging plug designs. They have a very different connector than the old J1772 standard that was popular on the Ford Ranger EV. The ongoing debate within this committee will have impact on the final cordset for charging to be adopted by most OEM automakers. Deliberations apparently are expected to conclude by March 2010. The J1772 committee deliberations are closed discussion, but by looking at who the committee members are and the companies they are with and their backgrounds and interests and other papers published some implications are apparent. It appears that deliberations are far from complete. An attempt at international standardizations is going on. A new plug may be in the works. 220V / 32A is a driver from Europe. It seems all the right players are at the table.
- Don Chandler

SAE J1772 Meeting agenda

Also the secretarty of the IEC T69 committee Peter Van Den Bossche had these papers of interest on his website:

Related current standards:

IEC TC69
ISO TC22 SC21 [45]
SAE J1772
National Electric Code
Canadian Electric Code Part 1 Section 86 and Part 2 for chargers.
UL

doug · 04-21-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

I am not sure what they are doing with "new improved J1772", but some details of the original (somewhat low tech) standard can be found here.

Quote:

...The control box sends a 1 kHz 12 volt square wave through a 1000 ohm resistor to the pilot pin. The duty cycle of the square wave is set to indicate how much current can be supplied from the AC mains.

That square wave duty cycle is how the current Tesla HPC pilot signal works as well.

You'd think the new connector standard would be capable of some two-way communication for things like negotiating payment, V2G, and whatever else.

TEG · 04-22-2009, 12:10 AM

This sounds familiar:

SAE World Congress -- Autoblog Green

Quote:

SAE 2009: SAE J1772 plug standard could be finalized by this fall...
...The connector is designed for single phase electrical systems with up to 240 V and 70 A such as those used in North American and Japan....
...This plug is unrelated to the recently announced European plug standard. That plug is designed for 400 V three phase applications.

Lots of good discussion here:
Do you have 220 Volts available at home? - ApteraForum.com
240v charging and the electrical code - Page 4 - ApteraForum.com - Aptera Car Forum

Check all the comments here too:
Plug-in Standards Necessary for Consumer Acceptance of Electric Vehicles Like the Chevy Volt | GM FastLane

From what I can tell, the 2009 version of J1772 will have a two way much more intelligent signal interface, but it hasn't been published yet. Once they ratify it, it may show up for sale on a site like this:
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...HYB&WIP_SW=YES
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...773&WIP_SW=YES

TEG · 04-22-2009, 09:37 AM

From Clipper Creek's Home Page :

Quote:

...ClipperCreek's products are compatible with the BMW Mini E and The Tesla Roadster and all SAE compatible vehicles coming to market soon, including the Chevy Volt, and the Nissan Cube Minicar. ...

MINI E charge station initial site inspection | Revenge of the Electric Car

Quote:

...the Clipper Creek charge station ... is to be protected by a 60amp feed breaker installed at the main panel. ...

TEG · 04-22-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug

I'm curious what the signal protocol is for the SAE connector.

While searching for such information I found various references to PDFs from SAE (and EPRI) workgroup sessions. They included links to documents which are no longer online. My guess is that various proposals are in the process of being approved, but those involved with the groups are trying to prevent the details from getting wide public distribution just yet. Besides, SAE tries to sell such publications once they are finalized.

Some example documents that were once online, but removed are these:
http:/ / et.epri.com/documents/E229630_04_Kissel_June_2008.pdf
http:/ / et.epri.com/documents/10.02.08_IWC_PHEV_presentations/PHEVWG_minutes_Atlanta.pdf
http:/ / et.epri.com/documents/12.11.08_IWC_PHEV_presentations/02_Kissel_December_2008.pdf

Also, many sites linked to this old article which has also been removed:
http:/ / greencarcongress.com/2008/12/coulomb-techn-1.html

Some details remain in google cache, but I won't post links to that.

Note, even the older J1772 documents talk of "Serial Data Transfer", but they were for high speed "Level 3" charging, and the actual production units only did Level 1 & Level 2 and didn't implement the advanced data transfer features.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/stakeholders/infrastructure/finalsaej1772.doc

Quote:

... 5.5 Serial Data Transfer - Coupler contact numbers 7, 8, and 9 are provided to allow an exchange of serial data information between the EV and the EVSE based on SAE J1850, SAE J2178, and SAE J2293. The serial data link is mandatory for DC Charging to allow the vehicle to control the charge process. The serial data link is optional for AC Level 2 and AC Level 1 - i.e. for displaying charge related or other information to the user. ...