Compare to the Volt - Page 3

Solinear · 04-18-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt2

And add to the equation that all energy being created by the ICE is being stored (within the efficiency limits of the generator and battery). No wasted energy by sitting idle at red lights or in grid locked traffic.

Well, they wouldn't quite do it like that. Because of how efficiencies work, you would take the power from the ICE to *first* power the electric motor, then use whatever wasn't being used by the internal systems to charge the batteries. So basically you run your ICE 30-50% of the time, during which it's powering the electric motor and internal systems then charging the batteries until they're fully charged. Then you power down the ICE until the batteries are down to 20-30% charge (probably flip a switch for 'long-range operation' so the car knows that it should be doing this instead of the 5-10% from normal operation) and re-do the cycle.

Using the ICE to charge the batteries, then passing through that energy to the electric motor would result in power from the ICE being lost, while powering the electric motor would be at 100% efficiency (modified for the motor's efficiency ratings) and the batteries being charged more slowly (quick charging batteries is less efficient than a slow charge anyway), so you're getting higher efficiency for the ICE running in it's 'ideal' range and you're getting higher efficiency for the electricity that is coming out of the ICE. Then again, it still might be cheaper and more efficient to just have the vehicle run off an ICE that is running at lower efficiency for a period of time. Translating energy of any type into another type (mechanical energy into electrical and vice-versa) is relatively inefficient, whereas sticking the ICE on the end of the electric motor (with the transmission between them) might be more efficient in the long run, even though you're not running in the ICE's most efficient range.

Michael · 04-22-2008, 03:38 AM

Although your statement that it would be more efficient to power the elctric motor directly from the ICE while routing the excess electricity to the battery does seem to make sense, it does not appear to be the way that the GM engineers plan to implement (at least currently). It seems that they plan to stick with a simpler process of always routing power through the battery.

malcolm · 04-27-2008, 03:29 AM

Maximum Bob talks pure EV Volt, battery-free Volt and prototype drives! - AutoblogGreen

Apparently the Volt could have just batteries. Or then again, no batteries.

Maybe it's just Bob but I thought there was a clear and focussed commitment to REEV/E-REV. There's a danger that in keeping too many options open, it will be impossible to optimise the design for one particular drivetrain.

Plus the "no batteries" idea sucks for efficiency

BBHighway · 04-27-2008, 05:03 AM

He said that it was not really possible to offer a no-batteries option. They have had requests to either increase the EV range, or offer a BEV version without the ICE, and he said that may be an option, especially later on if new and improved battery technology comes along.

I don't see that as much of a change from the existing setup. You can already drive it as a BEV by simply not driving it more than 40 miles between charges. It will absolutely act as a BEV if you leave the gas tank empty, so it can only go using the battery charge. So you aren't adding a new mode of operation or anything, just a matter of increasing the battery capacity. And if that can be done with new batteries that aren't any bigger or heavier than the existing ones, then you don't have any mechanical changes either.

Taking out the ICE and adding more batteries would require mechanical changes, but once people start using the car, there may be a lot of them that want to take that next step and stop burning dino fuel. If there is enough demand to make it worthwhile, then GM should and probably will make the necessary changes.

All this assumes that the Volt actually reaches the market and is successful. I think it will, but I can't completely eliminate the lingering doubts.

Cobos · 04-27-2008, 07:49 AM

I've got my doubts as well but it seems that the Volt will be the first PHEV/REEV from a big player, so the timing might be just right. This will be a good first and only car while the MiEV and Subaru's offers are more of a nr 2 car. The only cloud the way I see it has to do with pricing as well as a PHEV Prius. What might happen though is that the Volt is too expensive for the US market while the Opel Flextreme has much less competition price wise and might succeed.

Cobos

BBHighway · 04-27-2008, 04:17 PM

Hymotion has announced that their L5 PHEV conversion kit for the Prius will be available starting this summer at $9995, including installation and a three year warranty.

The combined cost of the Prius and the L5 is still under the latest estimated price of the Chevy Volt, and you can have it this summer, instead of wating until at least 2010.

Convert your hybrid electric vehicle into a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle

doug · 05-14-2008, 08:01 PM

Looks like they're making progress.

Volt mules are meeting EV-only target range - AutoblogGreen

chimpanzee · 05-15-2008, 01:12 AM

You can get a used 2000 Ford Ranger EV for 29K, NiMH batteries 50 mi range:

2000 Ford Ranger EV--ALL ELECTRIC TRUCK!!

Code:

2000 Ford Ranger EV--ALL ELECTRIC TRUCK!! - $28900

Date: 2008-05-09, 10:45AM PDT

This is a truly rare vehicle - only 400 of these still exist after Ford began to crush them, but then stopped (watch "Who Killed The Electric Car" for the whole story). Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) battery pack delivers 50 miles of real-world driving range on a mix of hills, city, and freeway - yes, this electric vehicle can go on the freeway with a top speed of 70 mph. This truck only has 9k miles on it and the battery pack is rated to last MUCH longer than its lead acid counterpart (not to mention it makes the truck a bit lighter and the better driving range). 

It came off the Ford line as an electric vehicle and comes with a charging pack. Charges on a 220v outlet - as mentioned before, this truck is FULLY ELECTRIC. Now because it's fully electric, it requires MUCH less maintenace than its typical combustion engine counterparts. Think about it - no timing belt or water pump to worry about, no oil changes needed, etc. Sure you need to replace and maintain tires, brakes, brake fluid, and power steering fluid, but heck, you don't even have to go to the fuel station to fuel up anymore! Just plug it in when you get back. 

The truck is equipped with a 76kw, 300 volt electric motor. Automatic transmission (actually, technically, it doesn't really have a transmission). 2 door, standard cab body.

chimpanzee · 05-15-2008, 01:18 AM

A friend (Caltech alum, Physics '77) was a GM EV1 owner. I got a ride in it several years ago, & it blew me away. Even *I* wasn't aware of EV vehicles great looks/performance.

I asked him the other day about his Toyota Rav4, is it a hybrid? He told me "No, it's electric". !! He told me he grabbed one fast, as soon he found out the GM EV1 were being recalled for the crusher. He tells me its NiMH, 100 mi range.

You have the above (2000 Ford Ranger EV) & a Toyota Rav4 EV. What is all this talk about the Tesla EV Whitestar (& GM Volt), when you have major mfrs ALREADY capable of delivering EV?

Michael · 05-15-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimpanzee

You have the above (2000 Ford Ranger EV) & a Toyota Rav4 EV. What is all this talk about the Tesla EV Whitestar (& GM Volt), when you have major mfrs ALREADY capable of delivering EV?

I would think it might be more appropriate to say ' capable but ....'. Ford and Toyota both seem to be doing quite a bit of dragging their heels in making any real commitments to getting back in the EV ring. Can't really blame them much though; until the price of batteries are more affordable and have greater capacity. I don't believe there is a significant market yet for the low range EV vehicles. Of course, I guess significant could also mean different things to different people. I know that I'm pinning my hopes on an EV with a range extender for the forseeable future.