40 kWh and 60 kWh EPA range estimates, and how will it effect defferals?

[Johan]

Are the smaller packs more efficient due to the lower power?
The 0-60 times get slower as the packs get smaller. If Tesla ramps down the power available, will that increase the efficiency?

In an EV this could only affect EPA estimated range if the EPA test includes "flooring" of the accelerator, which I don't believe it does. Also, if power affected range negatively the Performance would be rated at less range than the regular 85kW, which it of course is not. Driven hard on a race track though you would get poorer milage (i.e. Higher watts/mile in the MSP compared to MS85, which again would be worse (but faster) than MS60 etc.

[Rifleman]

I am just getting to the point where I am hoping that we will get some solid info on the 40 and 60 kWh Model S's soon. I am starting to fear that the 40 is nothing more than a better looking Nissan Leaf, and not really a car that can be your primary vehicle if you live more than 25 miles from work. I made my reservation planning on buying a 40, and if I need to step up to a 60, I need as much notice as possible, so I can start figuring out how I am going to come up with the $10k difference. If they are unable or unwilling to give hard numbers on the 40 at this time, at least giving reservation holders an assurance that they will be able to change their order or defer to a latter date would go a long way to easing our fears. My number is high enough that this may or may not be an issue, but I am sure that there are people receiving the email to configure already who are in the same situation that I am.

[Doug_G]

I think the 40 could only be better than 40/85 times the above range graph. If that's good enough for you then you should be fine.

Personally I would strongly recommend the 60. That gives you Roadster-type range, and that is ample for in-town use.

[NotTarts]

Rifleman, I highly doubt the range is going to be under 100 miles. Like I said before, 140 miles is what I expect the EPA estimate to be, which gives plenty of leeway for varying conditions.

[onlinespending]

I am starting to fear that the 40 is nothing more than a better looking Nissan Leaf,

The 40 kWh option was always there simply so Tesla can claim that the Model S starts at sub $50k (after tax rebate). It's no different than any other car manufacturers "starting at" price. Obviously the average equipped Model S will be significantly more.

When I first looked at the Model S I was dead set on the 40 kWh option since I recognize that well over 90% of my (and most people's) driving is well within a 100 mile radius (for commuting, running errands, going out to eat, to the gym, etc.). For the few times I'd need to make a road trip I'd either rent a car (or use my current ICE, if I decide to keep it). Quite frankly, I'd rather put the miles on a rental or beater for longer trips anyways! But if I don't end up getting the MSP (because I would love that Performance), then I am a bit torn whether to get the 40 kWh or 60 kWh. The 85 kWh option is pointless to me, since that extra range will essentially be used once in a blue moon, and the 0.3 second 0-60 benefit from 60 kWh to 85 kWh is pretty much negligible. On the other hand, going from 40 kWh to 60 kWh gives you extra range you're more likely to use (or benefit from as degradation sets in), you get a full 0.6 seconds improved 0-60 time, and have the added ability to SuperCharge.

[MikeK]

I am just getting to the point where I am hoping that we will get some solid info on the 40 and 60 kWh Model S's soon. I am starting to fear that the 40 is nothing more than a better looking Nissan Leaf

My friend barely gets 70 miles of range from his LEAF, which is worse than I get in my 10 year old RAV4-EV. I expect the 40kWh car to exceed the range of my RAV, which satisfies my daily driving needs to the extent that my poor Prius has to be jump started whenever I drive it.

I'm getting the 60kWh so that I have the range for somewhat longer trips, like Monterey or Sacramento (with a little opportunity charging perhaps), and so that I have the ability to Supercharge.

[stopcrazypp]

I am just getting to the point where I am hoping that we will get some solid info on the 40 and 60 kWh Model S's soon. I am starting to fear that the 40 is nothing more than a better looking Nissan Leaf, and not really a car that can be your primary vehicle if you live more than 25 miles from work.

No way the 40kWh will be another Nissan Leaf. The new RAV4 EV, which has almost the same battery (slightly larger at 41.8 kWh) gets 100 miles of range easily in the real world. In range mode, the RAV4 EV would get 113 miles, and it has a crappy 76mpge rating (more forgivable given it's an SUV) vs the 89mpge rating the 85kWh Model S gets.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012...-20120803.html

The 40kWh Model S will likely be slightly more efficient than the 85kWh (because of lower weight), but I don't expect as much as Tesla predicts (300mi/85kWh=3.53mi/kWh, 160/40kWh=4mi/kwh, corresponding to 101mpge for the 40kWh Model S, ~15% better). If you use Tesla's (likely optimistic) prediction, then scale 265mi*160mi/300mi = 141 miles EPA. If you want to be conservative (assume 40kWh is not more efficient than 85kWh), just scale the 265mi*40kWh/85kWh = 125mi EPA range.

[EVNow]

Rifleman, I highly doubt the range is going to be under 100 miles.

Yes, I think the 40 kwh will mostly get above 100 miles. Freeway driving in the winter could be the exception.

[Rifleman]

Yes, I think the 40 kwh will mostly get above 100 miles. Freeway driving in the winter could be the exception.

I also think that the 40 will get a legitimate 100 miles for daily use, but my real hope is that it will get a legitimate 120 miles, at least when it is new, so that I will will not be sweating the occasional 90 mile day in a few years when the battery has started to degrade. I have little doubt that the 40 will do the job for me on day 1, the real question is will is do the job for me on year 4. If its normal mode range is 120 miles on day 1, I think that it probably will. If I go with a 40, my plan is to save that 10k, and in 6-8 years or so, when degradation is starting to be an issue, and the car itself is paid off, buy a new battery.

[dsm363]

I also think that the 40 will get a legitimate 100 miles for daily use, but my real hope is that it will get a legitimate 120 miles, at least when it is new, so that I will will not be sweating the occasional 90 mile day in a few years when the battery has started to degrade. I have little doubt that the 40 will do the job for me on day 1, the real question is will is do the job for me on year 4. If its normal mode range is 120 miles on day 1, I think that it probably will. If I go with a 40, my plan is to save that 10k, and in 6-8 years or so, when degradation is starting to be an issue, and the car itself is paid off, buy a new battery.

You'll definitely want to pick the pack that gives you easily over your 90 mile drive in standard mode with plenty of buffer for unexpected trips, bad weather, battery degradation. 60kWh might be way to go anyway since Supercharging will be included if that is an option for you. Picking the 40kWh and upgrading the battery might not give you Supercharging capability in the future.