Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

HK must fast-track switch to electric buses

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.

markwj

Asia Pacific
Moderator
Apr 10, 2011
4,681
1,380
Hong Kong
Last month's record pollution levels in Hong Kong will lead to 154 people dying early. One Month. One Hundred and Fifty Four People dead.

Vehicle emissions make up the second greatest contribution to our air pollution. When is the government going to learn, and get serious about this? Electrify the transport. Now. Incentivize EVs. Dis-incentivize petrol and diesel. Put in a legal framework for the mass adoption of EVs.

Or, are they just going to put in 100 meter masts on the top of buildings so that they can raise the pollution monitoring stations even higher, to get better readings?

So sorry, kids, for killing you early...

Hong Kong has recently experienced record-breaking smog levels. The Environmental Protection Department said that roadside pollution in 2011 was the worst on record. Clear the Air, a local non-governmental organisation working for improved air quality, reports that the city's greenhouse-gas emissions have jumped 14 per cent from 1990 to 2005 and that vehicles are the second greatest contributor to air pollution. The Hedley Environmental Index estimates that this past month's pollution will mean 154 premature deaths in Hong Kong.

Hong Kong is unusual among developed-world cities both in the poor quality of its air and the many easy opportunities to cut pollution. Replacing the city's ageing diesel-powered bus fleet with electric buses would effectively cut vehicular emissions, improve air quality and alleviate subsequent health complications. Hong Kong's solution for where to source such a vehicle lies just across the border.

Mainland China has prioritised the development of electric and hybrid vehicles in response to its growing dependence on foreign oil. The government announced annual subsidies of up to 2 billion yuan (HK$2.5 billion) for fuel-saving vehicles, including electrics and hybrids, in an attempt to foster growth in the industry and eventually put five million alternative energy vehicles on Chinese streets by 2020. Hong Kong can benefit from this initiative, utilising the funds used to develop the mainland's electric vehicle industry.

Shenzhen's BYD, the company famed for being one of the world's largest rechargeable battery manufacturers and winning financial backing from Warren Buffett, released an all-electric bus this past year. The K9 is fuelled by both solar power and a rechargeable lithium iron phosphate battery - one three-hour charge gives the bus a 250-kilometre range in urban settings.

This vehicle is fully capable of handling the routes and distances covered by the current bus fleet and would immediately minimise carbon emissions and noise pollution.

http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2af62ecb329d3d7733492d9253a0a0a0/?vgnextoid=954b72c35ba19310VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News
 
Last month's record pollution levels in Hong Kong will lead to 154 people dying early. One Month. One Hundred and Fifty Four People dead.

Vehicle emissions make up the second greatest contribution to our air pollution. When is the government going to learn, and get serious about this? Electrify the transport. Now. Incentivize EVs. Dis-incentivize petrol and diesel. Put in a legal framework for the mass adoption of EVs.

Or, are they just going to put in 100 meter masts on the top of buildings so that they can raise the pollution monitoring stations even higher, to get better readings?

So sorry, kids, for killing you early...



http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCM...0VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News

A little frustrating 3 years later and we are still sitting here breathing in diesel exhausts by the road.... and yet I pass by a big electric bus charging station every time I go to Shenzhen via the Shenzhen Bay crossing for over a year now.... What the hell are the HK companies/government doing???

I'm a little outdated on the topic; last I remember a few years ago the bus companies had a few single deck electric buses under testing but then what happened? Now I hear there is a HK designed one made in China that they "say" will be put into service? When?
 
Every reply from the transport companies I have seen says (paraphrasing) "there are no double decker electric buses", "we are frightened the buses will catch fire while charging in our precious depots", "we are conducting feasibility studies", "hong kong is very hilly", etc, etc, etc.

They only need to take a short trip across the border to see what is feasible.
 
Every reply from the transport companies I have seen says (paraphrasing) "there are no double decker electric buses", "we are frightened the buses will catch fire while charging in our precious depots", "we are conducting feasibility studies", "hong kong is very hilly", etc, etc, etc.

They only need to take a short trip across the border to see what is feasible.

Hilly is perfect for instant torque electrics..... and they already have lines serviced by single deckers..... are they not frightened one of their diesel buses will catch fire AS THEY REGULARLY DO?

LOL sorry it must be frustrating getting these responses all the time
 
Hilly is perfect for instant torque electrics..... and they already have lines serviced by single deckers..... are they not frightened one of their diesel buses will catch fire AS THEY REGULARLY DO?

LOL sorry it must be frustrating getting these responses all the time

In the last Central Policy Unit seminar we attended, I almost burst out laughing. The bus company representative actually used a newspaper example of a diesel bus catching fire in their depot as a reason to be wary of electric buses.
 
In the last Central Policy Unit seminar we attended, I almost burst out laughing. The bus company representative actually used a newspaper example of a diesel bus catching fire in their depot as a reason to be wary of electric buses.

Picard-Facepalm.jpg
 


I read that late this year or early next year they will be trialing a single Decker 97 passenger (max) electric bus. Each bus costs HK$4m each which is double the cost of the equivalent diesel powered version. It has a range of over 330km and maximum speed of 70km/h. I don't know who makes it.

Key question would be how much it costs to run a regular bus. Rough back of the envelope could be - average bus does 50,000km per year at (totally guessing here) - 50l/100km = 25,000 litres of fuel at say HK$15/l = HK$375,000 per year per bus.

Electric bus probably does 1kwh/km = 50Mwh of power or with 15% electricity loss on charging = 57Mw from the grid & HK$1.30/kwh = HK$74,000

i.e HK$300,000 a year per bus on fuel usage relative to electricity. Therefore the extra HK$2m has a payback of 6.6 years. You would have to think that maintenance would be substantially lower with the EV as well.

Therefore, I think the E-buses could very well make financial sense as typically buses are used for up to 7 years.
 
I read that late this year or early next year they will be trialing a single Decker 97 passenger (max) electric bus. Each bus costs HK$4m each which is double the cost of the equivalent diesel powered version. It has a range of over 330km and maximum speed of 70km/h. I don't know who makes it.

Key question would be how much it costs to run a regular bus. Rough back of the envelope could be - average bus does 50,000km per year at (totally guessing here) - 50l/100km = 25,000 litres of fuel at say HK$15/l = HK$375,000 per year per bus.

Electric bus probably does 1kwh/km = 50Mwh of power or with 15% electricity loss on charging = 57Mw from the grid & HK$1.30/kwh = HK$74,000

i.e HK$300,000 a year per bus on fuel usage relative to electricity. Therefore the extra HK$2m has a payback of 6.6 years. You would have to think that maintenance would be substantially lower with the EV as well.

Therefore, I think the E-buses could very well make financial sense as typically buses are used for up to 7 years.

Yea it's the one designed by a HK company and made in China. I heard there were complaints about how the earlier EV bus trials were all Chinese busses which is stupid if you ask me if no other companies have cost effective bids. Anyway hope they get through all the BS sooner rather than later and finally get them on the road
 
I read that late this year or early next year they will be trialing a single Decker 97 passenger (max) electric bus. Each bus costs HK$4m each which is double the cost of the equivalent diesel powered version. It has a range of over 330km and maximum speed of 70km/h. I don't know who makes it.

Key question would be how much it costs to run a regular bus. Rough back of the envelope could be - average bus does 50,000km per year at (totally guessing here) - 50l/100km = 25,000 litres of fuel at say HK$15/l = HK$375,000 per year per bus.

Electric bus probably does 1kwh/km = 50Mwh of power or with 15% electricity loss on charging = 57Mw from the grid & HK$1.30/kwh = HK$74,000

i.e HK$300,000 a year per bus on fuel usage relative to electricity. Therefore the extra HK$2m has a payback of 6.6 years. You would have to think that maintenance would be substantially lower with the EV as well.

Therefore, I think the E-buses could very well make financial sense as typically buses are used for up to 7 years.

I think buses do more like 100,000 to 150,000 km / year, depending on what routing they do (urban or express buses). That would only make your calculation better though.

And think of all the reduced pollution: It's a lot of money to be saved as well, when more and more vehicles go ICE->EV.

330 km range is pretty good for a bus. Depends how fast you can charge it. Can you charge it also on shorter stops? Imagine if bus stops eventually have fast charging installed, at the termination nodes. Sitting there for 10-20 minutes on a fast DC charging can extend the range during the day, until it finally charges completely to full, overnight somewhere.
 
I think buses do more like 100,000 to 150,000 km / year, depending on what routing they do (urban or express buses). That would only make your calculation better though.

And think of all the reduced pollution: It's a lot of money to be saved as well, when more and more vehicles go ICE->EV.

330 km range is pretty good for a bus. Depends how fast you can charge it. Can you charge it also on shorter stops? Imagine if bus stops eventually have fast charging installed, at the termination nodes. Sitting there for 10-20 minutes on a fast DC charging can extend the range during the day, until it finally charges completely to full, overnight somewhere.

Don't know how fast they would charge - it depends on how large the battery actually is. My guess is 4-5 hours using similar charging speed as supercharging.
Ultimately, once you have decided on the E-bus you want to use, it may make sense to invest in bettery swapping infrastructure to make the whole thing work more efficiently. Battery swap stations make sense for electric taxi fleets and busses.
 
Don't know how fast they would charge - it depends on how large the battery actually is. My guess is 4-5 hours using similar charging speed as supercharging.
Ultimately, once you have decided on the E-bus you want to use, it may make sense to invest in bettery swapping infrastructure to make the whole thing work more efficiently. Battery swap stations make sense for electric taxi fleets and busses.

Two words, battery swap.

The bus depots are big enough and bus designed don't need to be pretty and the chassis should have plenty of room for a design that can be easily swapped out with hydraulics
 
Don't know how fast they would charge - it depends on how large the battery actually is. My guess is 4-5 hours using similar charging speed as supercharging.
Ultimately, once you have decided on the E-bus you want to use, it may make sense to invest in bettery swapping infrastructure to make the whole thing work more efficiently. Battery swap stations make sense for electric taxi fleets and busses.

Seems to make a lot of sense. Even though it would require more batteries (those in the bus, and those in the charging station), it doesn't really matter. If the bus was charging for 5 hours - it would be immobilised anyway.

Let's say every two electric buses share three batteries: Example Driving for four hours, charging for four hours. This way, buses could be operating 24/7.

On the other hand: Batteries don't need to charge to full, every time. If a bus is resting even ten minutes here and there (like termination nodes), this could prolong the distance the bus could drive in a day.
 
Yea it's the one designed by a HK company and made in China. I heard there were complaints about how the earlier EV bus trials were all Chinese busses which is stupid if you ask me if no other companies have cost effective bids. Anyway hope they get through all the BS sooner rather than later and finally get them on the road

The single decker which was on display at Science Park was designed in Hong Kong and built by 中國動力
 
bus runs on diesel, fuel cost is halved.
I read that late this year or early next year they will be trialing a single Decker 97 passenger (max) electric bus. Each bus costs HK$4m each which is double the cost of the equivalent diesel powered version. It has a range of over 330km and maximum speed of 70km/h. I don't know who makes it.

Key question would be how much it costs to run a regular bus. Rough back of the envelope could be - average bus does 50,000km per year at (totally guessing here) - 50l/100km = 25,000 litres of fuel at say HK$15/l = HK$375,000 per year per bus.

Electric bus probably does 1kwh/km = 50Mwh of power or with 15% electricity loss on charging = 57Mw from the grid & HK$1.30/kwh = HK$74,000

i.e HK$300,000 a year per bus on fuel usage relative to electricity. Therefore the extra HK$2m has a payback of 6.6 years. You would have to think that maintenance would be substantially lower with the EV as well.

Therefore, I think the E-buses could very well make financial sense as typically buses are used for up to 7 years.
 
Government to promote electric buses

http://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1225802-20151125.htm

The Secretary for the Environment, Wong Kam-sing, said the government will promote the use of electric buses as a way to reduce carbon emissions in the city.

Wong said there has been a remarkable surge in the number of electrical vehicles in Hong Kong over the past five years, with over 3,000 electric cars registered by October this year compared to just about 100 in 2010.

Speaking at a Legislative Council meeting, Wong said electric buses can play a significant role in bringing down the city's greenhouse gases emission.
 
Interesting to hear from the GM of Icon Hotel at the Charged HK rally that they have purchased 2 electric buses to use as guests shuttles in early 2016 to add to their fleet of Model S. I wonder what brands/specs are the busses they have ordered.

It seems waiting for government/large local companies (KMB, Citybus, etc) to act in a timely manner is useless; up to the entrepreneurs and private businesses to act in this city.
 
Interesting to hear from the GM of Icon Hotel at the Charged HK rally that they have purchased 2 electric buses to use as guests shuttles in early 2016 to add to their fleet of Model S. I wonder what brands/specs are the busses they have ordered.

It seems waiting for government/large local companies (KMB, Citybus, etc) to act in a timely manner is useless; up to the entrepreneurs and private businesses to act in this city.

Yes, that was good to hear. It seems that the hotel industry in Hong Kong are one of the first movers into electric transportation. Many airport transfer services now use EVs (and Tesla Model S, in particular).

But, also interesting to hear that the issue is again one of licensing. Getting a hotel transportation tourbus license in Hong Kong is very hard, even if the bus is electric.
 
I wonder how's the case with school buses? Could existing operators change in their diesels for electric without any burning hoops to jump for registration?
They should offer once year free EV road registration license for existing operators who wants to trade up for an EV bus.
But that would be too easy and sensible for the bureaucrats