Various thoughts on Model S

[gg_got_a_tesla]

On the other hand Tesla may need a guaranteed level of income to support the build out of the super charger network. It might come down to a monthly subscription at one price level or a per use charge at a much much higher level to cover the costs.

Yes, for comparison, Blink offers both types of plans:

Blink - Membership

[ModelS1079]

Did you get the impression that the fee would only be for 60 kWh owners (ie free for 85 kWh owners) or that it would be a fee for all users?

Todd, I had had the impression with my first call that this was to be imposed on only 60kWh users, but my second call's specialist suggested all users would be charged for Supercharge use, whatever the cost structure. I am not confident anyone knows, except The Board. Brian in response to your note [This aligns with what I had guessed months ago. Good to see they went the route of "85 benefit is saving on usage cost" rather than "85 benefit is more technology in the vehicle" (with respect to Supercharging).], I am not totally sure what you mean - comment would be welcome.

[Todd Burch]

On the other hand Tesla may need a guaranteed level of income to support the build out of the super charger network. It might come down to a monthly subscription at one price level or a per use charge at a much much higher level to cover the costs.

I was under the impression that the relatively small cost of building out the network would bring a lot of bang for the buck. Since the charger's proprietary to Tesla, the more superchargers they have, the more potential customers will see range anxiety as less of an issue, and the more cars Tesla will sell. Seems to me it also benefits Tesla from a public relations standpoint, especially given the talk of solar panels and the idea of generating clean transportation energy.

I think we calculated in another thread that a nationwide network in the US could be established for about $10-$20M. That seems a relatively small cost in the grand scheme of things given the benefits. Given gross margins and an estimated selling price of the car, that would be about 600 Model S's to pay for the nationwide network. If Elon mentioned they can get cash-flow positive at 8,000 cars, it seems Tesla has the ability to build out a decent, nationwide, nearly free network relatively quickly.

Edit: Not to mention if they can sell power back to the grid with the solar panels. (Although granted, with solar panels, this estimated cost is probably a little low).

[JRP3]

Problem is with a free supercharging network people would be tempted to use it more than really necessary, tying up superchargers and putting battery packs through more abuse. I'd think they have to charge something just to discourage needless supercharger use. In truth it's probably in Tesla's best interest overall to have as few people actually use the supercharger network as possible.

[Todd Burch]

Problem is with a free supercharging network people would be tempted to use it more than really necessary, tying up superchargers and putting battery packs through more abuse. I'd think they have to charge something just to discourage needless supercharger use. In truth it's probably in Tesla's best interest overall to have as few people actually use the supercharger network as possible.

I agree. It needs to be like a health insurance deductible. Some small amount to discourage abuse. That's why I think it should be per-use, and very inexpensive (no more than charging at home would cost).

[JRP3]

Except it's much more valuable than home charging when you need it, so I'd expect it to be priced accordingly.

[Larry Chanin]

I agree. It needs to be like a health insurance deductible. Some small amount to discourage abuse. That's why I think it should be per-use, and very inexpensive (no more than charging at home would cost).

Hi Todd,

I agree that there should definately be a fee for Supercharging, but Superchargers will be generating large demand charges during on-peak times. It would be unrealistic to expect to pay the same as charging at home. I think it is likely that Tesla will attempt to mitigate the demand charges by using photovoltaic arrays with battery storage, but it is still doubtful that all demand charges could be avoided, especially with a Supercharger that has lots of daily customers.

Larry

[NigelM]

Guys, just a heads-up that we have a whole thread on paying for Supercharging as well as others on the general subject:

What-s-a-fair-price-for-the-supercharging-option
Tesla-Supercharger-network
Suggested-Supercharger-Locations

FWIW, I suspect that superchargers will get less use than most people expect. I subscribe to DavidM's implied point here and believe that although we need a network of Superchargers to assuage range-anxiety and change general thinking, few of us will use them very often.

[Todd Burch]

FWIW, I suspect that superchargers will get less use than most people expect. I subscribe to DavidM's implied point here and believe that although we need a network of Superchargers to assuage range-anxiety and change general thinking, few of us will use them very often.

I agree. For most, long drives just aren't that common. It'll probably be 5-10 years before most of us see any sort of high demand for superchargers, although they're needed now for those rare occasions.

And Nigel, yes there are other threads...but after all, this thread is "Various thoughts on Model S". I guess this thread is turning into a mishmash of randomness and we ought to dissect this thread and organize its various pieces into other threads...

..not it!

[jerry33]

Right. Long drives happen from two to five weeks during a year. Not many drive long distance (other than business) more than that.