Various thoughts on Model S

[ModelS1079]

I took a test drive so I'll answer: it's a must-have because the handling is awesome and the ride is very smooth. Like combining the best of a sports car and a luxury car suspension. I think the Tesla rep told me that the car was originally designed for the air suspension and they added the standard suspension in after but don't know if that's really true. The rep considered the air suspension and the premium sound the two best "bang for the buck" upgrades.

Did not test drive, but after reading reviews (individual and trade reviews), and seeing the car lift and drop in the showroom (how cool is that?), it seems a (relatively) small price to pay for a big jump in enjoyment of the car. Ditto on speaker upgrade as noted above. As per Liz G, I am saving with a 60kWh battery, and instead enjoying the tech package, speakers - and air suspension.

[MikeK]

13. The pano roof does not have ability for the rear of the glass to tilt up. Opening the pano roof always happens from the front.

Yes, but to open, the back has to tilt up in order for it to roll back over the top of the roof. My impression was that "Vent" did exactly that. Tilt the back up but not roll the roof back. So, perhaps it just has to move back a little bit?

[100thMonkey]

thanks for the link. Certainly I've got lots more reading to do before delivery. what I'm doing with the Leaf now should work great. I think ahead a bit, charge up enough to get me back to the ranch with roughly 50% for overnight (reduces cladding of anode/cathode), then start over using an end timer for the next days driving. The depth of discharge on a daily basis is kept to a minimum. I avoid going below 30% SOC and above 80%, it's my understanding that between 30% and 50% SOC has the lowest propensity for cladding. my approach would avoid stressing the battery by not driving it at a low SOC. I doubt there is that much of a difference in chemistry between the Leaf and the S, but I have not looked into it deeply yet. what I've found with our driving patterns is that the vast majority of our driving happens in relatively short jaunts, so full fast charges are rarely necessary and will be much less so with the 85 kW S pack. I'll have a much better sense of this once I become more familiar with the charging options of the S and put some miles on it in real life. I may conclude that it's just not worth thinking much about with the standard mode option and TMS. The Leaf's current challenge with heat and lack of TMS has us thinking a lot more about charging habits, I suspect the intent with the design of the BMS of the S is to reduce the need to think about it so much.

You might want to read this (post #39 hcsharp) and then rethink your plan because different LiIons have different requirements. Keeping the Tesla battery at 50% will actually shorten the life. A daily standard charge is best for battery life.

The cathode in Li ion batteries forms defects (microcracks) due to stress caused by expansion and contraction relative to neighboring materials. It is simply bigger or smaller depending on whether it's charged or discharged. The more you discharge it, the more it changes size. And the more it changes size, the more microcracks it gets. These microscopic cracks lower the battery's capacity. That's one reason why smaller cycles, more often, contribute to longer battery life. That's why you should plug it in every night.

Heat aggravates the microcracking process, so keeping your battery cool contributes to longer battery life. And guess what? Your battery heats up more when used at a lower SOC because it requires more amps to keep your car going 65mph than it does at a higher SOC. That's why you should charge it every night.

Capacity fade also comes from the build-up of non-soluble deposits on the anode and cathode. This chemical process happens faster when the battery is warmer. It also happens faster when at a high SOC. But the process slows to a crawl when you drop the SOC to 80 or 90%, and slows only a tiny bit more at 50%. So if you are going to drive your car, keeping it charged in std mode has less impact on battery life (lower amps, less heat) than driving at a lower SOC. But if you're not going to drive your car for a few days, there are no amps or heat to worry about. That's when Tesla recommends putting it in storage mode, which keeps it at a lower SOC.

end of science lesson.

[Liz G]

Yes, but to open, the back has to tilt up in order for it to roll back over the top of the roof. My impression was that "Vent" did exactly that. Tilt the back up but not roll the roof back. So, perhaps it just has to move back a little bit?

Perhaps the rep was mistaken then. Or perhaps it just lifts and slides in conjunction so you cannot just tilt it open. I'm just relaying the info the rep gave me when I asked. He did not demonstrate. Though he seemed very certain you couldn't just tilt the rear of the glass. Perhaps Rod and Barbara will be kind enough to shed some clarity on the functioning of the pano roof.

[brianman]

Perhaps we need to see what "1% open" means for the Panoramic Roof.

[JRP3]

Still don't know what a sticky thread is. Damn.

A thread that is pinned to stay at the top of each forum so it doesn't get pushed down with newer threads.

[Larry Chanin]

In response to question about my source for 60kWh hardware being included but not enabled:
Larry, this is from a direct conversation with my configuration specialist at the Palo Alto area showroom, Friday, Aug 10th. I had just been told in White Plains that the 60Kwh battery would have the Supers=charge hardware included, and was shown this on the design/configuration website as well, while in the NY showroom. By phone, the CA specialist noted that Tesla was planning to enable the 60kWh supercharge hardware for a fee; after I noted that seemed misleading in light of the new web posting (which clearly says supercharge hardware is included), he indicated that he thought that, although the hardware was included, there would be a separate fee later to enable it. Would welcome further clarification if you come by it.

Thanks for the elaboration.

Did you get the impression that this fee was just for the the 60 kWh cars, or for all cars?

Thanks.

Larry

[ModelS1079]

Thanks for the elaboration.

Did you get the impression that this fee was just for the the 60 kWh cars, or for all cars?

Thanks.
Larry

The specialist clearly indicated that the additional fee to enable supercharging hardware to function was for only 60kWh cars, as the specialist noted that the 85's would be enabled at time of vehicle purchase, and the 40's were too sensitive to have the supercharge hardware (too much heating and degredation with supercharge). Perhaps the most significant impression I took away is that Supercharging, which is direct DC-to-DC charging, apparently contributes significantly to degredation if used routinely. Hence, I am hoping there will be, say, 70-80 Amp chargers available as well that will benefit from Twin Chargers onboard (the internal Tesla dual AC to DC chargers) - taking more time than Supercharge, much fater than regular charging, but taking less life from the battery. Feedback from BatteryTechies welcome, and from anyone who hears more about the supercharge plan for 60 kWh cars. Thanks.

[BryanW]

S1079, this is why I ordered the twin chargers. I won't need them at home, as I will only be using the HPWC on a 240/50 amp line. (I know I could go with an outlet, but I want the HPWC for looks, and for any visiting Model S passing through Utah and stopping in for drinks and a visit). For the majority of my road trips, I think I will be able to get by just fine with the twin chargers going at 70-80 amps while I get a meal. As long as they have this option, I should rarely need to supercharge, thus sparing the battery. I was originally going to get the single charger, but the more I thought about this possibility, the more the twin charger made sense, even though I won't need it at home.

[contaygious]

Do they even have twin charging stations? I thought supercharging would be more common. I don't want to pay for twin charger to wait hours anyway so skipped that option.