Michael Phelps - greatest ever?

[richkae]

Would you say the same about someone who wins a gold in 2 man canoe vs. 1 man? Only the latter should "count"?

I am far more impressed by an athlete that wins medals in 2 different sports than someone who wins 2 in tiny variations of the same thing.

[richkae]

I am far more impressed by an athlete that wins medals in 2 different sports than someone who wins 2 in tiny variations of the same thing.

That said, the guy who wins the decathlon might be a more impressive athlete than a swimmer that wins 5 individual gold medals like Phelps did in 2008.
What is impressive about Phelps is that he has gold medals from a span of 8 years.
But it's super hard to repeat in the decathlon because if you make a mistake and foul out of any one of 10 events you can't win or even compete ( see Bryan Clay who got silver in 2004 and gold in 2008 but then fluke fouled out at the 2012 olympic trials and doesnt get a chance in 2012 ).

[clea]

or even more impressive is an athlete who wins medals in both winter and summer olympic events, of which there are 5, and only one athlete (Clara Hughes) who has won multiple medals in both.

[brianman]

Well, he took another individual gold, so now his individual record improves even more.

Ok, so I'm confused by this.

Boat A - Jim and John win gold 2 man canoe
Boat B - Jim wins gold 1 man canoe

John's accomplishment is meaningless? Or Jim's first accomplishment is meaningless but John's is not (because it's not "duplicative")?

This must be the new math I keep hearing about with modern SATs.

[richkae]

Ok, so I'm confused by this.

Boat A - Jim and John win gold 2 man canoe
Boat B - Jim wins gold 1 man canoe

John's accomplishment is meaningless? Or Jim's first accomplishment is meaningless but John's is not (because it's not "duplicative")?

This must be the new math I keep hearing about with modern SATs.

They are both medal winners, grats. John is unlikely to be a better athlete than Jim. Do I take Jim's performance as proof that he is better than John? Nope.

1 man canoe and 2 man canoe are different, but not very different.
I am still more impressed by an athlete that wins 2 medals in 2 very different sports.

But you are distracting from what I said about relays. A relay is still just a series of individual races.
If Joe wins the 1 man canoe and the serial 1 man canoe relay with someone else - Joe is not proven better than someone who wins just the 1 man canoe.

[rolosrevenge]

I used to run the 4x100m relay in high school, we won second in our state (a pretty meaningless accomplishment). The relay team is in fact much more than 4 individuals. You have to have exchanges. Exchanges have to be perfectly synced or you can be disqualified. Our relay team practiced together, sat next to each other on the bus, hung out in school, and did lots of other activities to build a camaraderie. We beat many other teams who had faster individual people because we were a much better team. Ultimately, the only reason we lost, is because I botched the hand-off. I was thinking too much about running my fastest leg ever (which I actually did), and not enough about making the perfect exchange. Don't belittle the accomplishment of a relay team. True, you need four of the top people, but you need more than that.

[richkae]

I used to run the 4x100m relay in high school, we won second in our state (a pretty meaningless accomplishment). The relay team is in fact much more than 4 individuals. You have to have exchanges. Exchanges have to be perfectly synced or you can be disqualified. Our relay team practiced together, sat next to each other on the bus, hung out in school, and did lots of other activities to build a camaraderie. We beat many other teams who had faster individual people because we were a much better team. Ultimately, the only reason we lost, is because I botched the hand-off. I was thinking too much about running my fastest leg ever (which I actually did), and not enough about making the perfect exchange. Don't belittle the accomplishment of a relay team. True, you need four of the top people, but you need more than that.

Rather than argue with you about the work required to handle the hand-offs during a running relay - I will just stick to disrespecting swimmers.
Swimmers don't have to do jack on the exchange, just jump in the water.

[brianman]

I will just stick to disrespecting swimmers.

And now we get to the heart of it.

[rolosrevenge]

Rather than argue with you about the work required to handle the hand-offs during a running relay - I will just stick to disrespecting swimmers.
Swimmers don't have to do jack on the exchange, just jump in the water.

Ah, well that's a different story all together then. For a 4x100 though, we would spend hours every week just on practicing the handoffs. And then you have little tape marks you set on the track, one for where you start outside the exchange zone, and one for when your teammate crosses, you turn and start running at full speed, while listening for the "hit" that he'll yell when he wants you to reach backwards. All without looking of course, you've got to be in your fastest sprint headed forward, any delay and you're toast. You have to have the most perfect trust and confidence in your teammate which comes from the hours of practice.

[richkae]

Ah, well that's a different story all together then. For a 4x100 though, we would spend hours every week just on practicing the handoffs. And then you have little tape marks you set on the track, one for where you start outside the exchange zone, and one for when your teammate crosses, you turn and start running at full speed, while listening for the "hit" that he'll yell when he wants you to reach backwards. All without looking of course, you've got to be in your fastest sprint headed forward, any delay and you're toast. You have to have the most perfect trust and confidence in your teammate which comes from the hours of practice.

See, this is great. I've now gone several hours without pining for when my Model S will arrive...

DAMMIT!!!!!!