Diesel vs. Hybrid

[drees]

WVO cost me nothing.

It might cost you nothing in the quantities you are using it, but if a significant portion of the automobile fleet tried to do the same thing they'd quickly find it reach prices similar to oil. WVO simply can't scale up in any significant volume.

[dpeilow]

And here in Europe Diesel is 30 Euro cent cheaper per liter than petrol.

I never drove a Prius, so won't comment on the fun factor.

On this side of the English Channel diesel is around 12 pence / litre more.

I drove a mark 2 Prius for a few days once. Not as dull as I'd expected but not in the same fun league as an Audi A3 2.0 TDI or Renault Megane Coupe 1.9 dCI.

[daniel]

My 2004 Prius has been an excellent car. If I could not have an EV, the Prius would be my first choice. Diesel stinks and biodiesel is too much hassle for me. I get 50 mph on my road trips (which is 95% of the miles I put on it now).

No, it's not a muscle car or a luxury car. The sound system is as good as my ears are, so anything better would be wasted. It has plenty of acceleration, as long as I'm comparing to the Civic I drove before it, and compared to the Xebra it's a powerhouse. No fair comparing it to the Roadster, which is a high-performance sports car and costs four times as much, or to the Model S, which is a high-performance sedan, and costs two to four times as much depending on trim level and options.

The Prius technology was cutting edge in its day. Now it's yesterday's technology with EVs available, but the Prius is still the best choice for my road trips into country where there are no charging options better than 120-volt outlets. And forget about finding biodiesel where I drive the Prius.

As for the PiP, it's too much money for too little battery in a mostly-gas car.

[smoothoperator]

Diesel stinks

When was the last time you drove a diesel vehicle? A lot has changed in 30 years

[drees]

When was the last time you drove a diesel vehicle? A lot has changed in 30 years

Even brand new cars stink - diesel or gas. Sure, they stink a lot less, but they still stink. The driver has the best spot - he leaves all the stink behind him. Following a stinker - not so great.

Cold start - lots of stink.
Heavy acceleration - still plenty of stink.

Diesels before the recent CARB rules _really_ stink. Even the ones with "biodiesel" stickers on them. Most of the change has been a result of CARB regulations. But I still get behind one of those new "clean" diesels and still find they stink. Just not nearly as much as they used to.

[jerry33]

When was the last time you drove a diesel vehicle? A lot has changed in 30 years

2004. I had a modern clean diesel car. It stank--couldn't keep it in the garage because of the fumes when you started it. Every fill was a smelly mess. Maintenance costs were through the roof. 22 cents per mile over the 95,000 miles I kept it. And it was actually worse than that because the first 36,000 miles were bumper to bumper. Never again.

[smoothoperator]

2004. I had a modern clean diesel car. It stank--couldn't keep it in the garage because of the fumes when you started it. Every fill was a smelly mess. Maintenance costs were through the roof. 22 cents per mile over the 95,000 miles I kept it. And it was actually worse than that because the first 36,000 miles were bumper to bumper. Never again.

Luckily the "smelly mess" was diesel fuel, if this mess was actually gasoline it would have probably ignited.

Which vehicle did you own in 2004?

VW Jettas /Touaregs/Beetles/Passat's of 2004 had 4 year/50k Mile Bumper to Bumper & 5 year/60k mile powertrain warranties

Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Jeep did not have a US diesel in 2004? Just curious which manufacturer had a 3 year/36k mile new car warranty in 2004 that also had a diesel option. Was it a passenger car or truck?

[jerry33]

Luckily the "smelly mess" was diesel fuel, if this mess was actually gasoline it would have probably ignited.

The mess was on the pumps. Gasoline evaporates too fast to make a mess.

Which vehicle did you own in 2004?

The VW and it was only three years with 100K power train warranty (good thing too because the engine blew at 80,000 miles--this wasn't included in the 22 cents per mile). 2004 is the last year I drove it. It was the most disappointing car I ever drove. I really expected to keep it for 300,000 or 400,000 miles. As it was I got rid of it as soon as I could after the engine was replaced.

[ElSupreme]

2004. I had a modern clean diesel car. It stank--couldn't keep it in the garage because of the fumes when you started it. Every fill was a smelly mess. Maintenance costs were through the roof. 22 cents per mile over the 95,000 miles I kept it. And it was actually worse than that because the first 36,000 miles were bumper to bumper. Never again.

Ultra low sulfer diesel happend in 2007. VW changed over after their 2006.5 model year Jettas to 'clean diesel' and went straight to 2008 model year.

Volkswagen Jetta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A lot changed for diesel in 2007. That said DPM is nasty smelling stuff, and it comes from clean diesel too.

[daniel]

I've never driven a diesel car. But when I worked on the farm in North Dakota they had diesel tractors and a gas pickup truck. So I pumped both fuels, and drove both kinds. (They even had a tractor that started on gasoline and then ran on diesel. Complicated starting process. But that's another story.)

Gasoline smells awful but diesel was ten times worse. If I got any on my hands while filling the tank, it made me sick all day from the stink. And even "clean" diesel has much more lax emission standards because the stuff cannot be made as clean as gas. Emissions are one of the reasons I chose the Prius in 2004.

Because biodiesel is carbon-neutral I have no gripe against people who use it, but since 95% of my ICE driving is my annual road trip up to Canada, biodiesel is not an option for me. A few strategically-located super-chargers, with enough slots available that I wouldn't have to wait to get in, would make an EV practical for those trips, but I don't expect to see those where I'd need them before I'm too old for the hiking trips that take me up there. At that point, if I can still drive, I could trade off the Prius and be EV-only. But the PiP is far too little, far too late, to hold any interest for me. In 2004 I might have bought it instead of the regular Prius, had it been available, as my 3-mile commute would have been all electric. But with several real EVs available now, the PiP is a joke.