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The good thing about Fisker is they have been able to raise money relatively easily. But the negative news keeps coming and I'm worried if they will survive to make the Atlantic (their sales target was 10k for 2012, 1500 sales in the first three quarters is way behind). I'm most worried about the political collateral damage if Fisker failed.
Because there are tons of crazy people in this world...
Yep - I did outline my fit and finish issues (I'm flattered you've kept trackOriginally Posted by smorgasbord
). All of those issues (except for the orange peel, which I've come to find out is more common than not on cars sub-$150K including the MSP) were resolved by Fisker in the first couple of months I had the car. Since then, Fisker has gone out of their way to remedy any other things I've noticed and their service has been impeccable (at the HQ level, and at San Diego and Santa Monica). As some here know, I split my time between New York and LA and Fisker has always accommodated my travel schedule, sent cars to pick me up from the airport (to bring me to the dealer), etc. Having dealt with Audi, BMW, Lexus and other brands customer service, Fisker so far has been head and shoulders above those in terms of minimizing customer inconvenience. It is also worth noting that the newly built cars rolling off the line do not have the trunk overbite and some of the other early build car problems.
Regarding the media, you're joking right? The media influences greatly what consumers prefer. The Volt is an AMAZING car - I've driven one on a roadtrip, yet most people I've spoken with about the Volt say they wouldn't buy one because "didn't it catch on fire in that crash testing?" or "I heard it only has a range of 40 miles" etc. These are otherwise would-be buyers, who dismiss the Volt out of hand as a potential purchase. The Karma is a slightly different beast, given its higher income (and generally more highly educated) demographic target, ditto for the MS. That said, it still does affect how people perceive the car, wrongly or rightly. And Tesla, just like Fisker, depends on sales to drive its business. If people don't buy the cars, there are no sales and soon thereafter, there would be no Tesla or Fisker. EDIT: one other thing, I think I sorta missed part of your point: the fates are indeed intertwined, just as Solyndra (and other 'greentech' stories) has been used by the media to taint Fisker, Tesla and others. The failure of one or more of these will just further fan the flame of anti-green sentiment.
Last edited by SoCalGuy; 09-27-2012 at 12:48 PM.
Here I definitely agree. It seems every time mention of the Volt comes up with non-enthusiasts I have to defend the car. The ludicrous and misguided FUD that was spread apparently political reasons has indeed tainted the car. Plug-in hybrids definitely have their place as part of the solution, and the Volt in particular is a pretty darn good car. That's exactly what I tell people: ignore the FUD, it's actually a pretty darn good car.
Here's where we differ. There has been gloriously good press about the Model S specifically. Anyone who researches the car is going to see that. At this point it's simply not possible to tar it the same way the Volt was. People will probably try but it won't stick the same way.
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Well, to get technical, the Karma is actually only driven by its electric motors. The ICE puts energy into the battery packs! Not to mention that a dictionary isn't really the place to get technical definitions on things.Oh, and the Karma is a hybrid in my opinion. Dictionary.com agrees:
The Karma is driven by two sources of power AND combines an ICE with electric motors powered by a battery, so it satisfies both criteria to boot.
And what about a Model S. Where you get power from different power plants from a single plug. And you might end up using multiple plugs?!?! Is the Model S a NG/Coal/Solar/Wind/Hydro/Geothermal/Gas hybrid?!?!
Is the LEAF I test drove at a LEAF EVent a hybrid, or worse a diesel? It was charged from a diesel CHAdeMO truck!
EDIT: Sorry Doug.
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Count me in that group. There's no point in TMC folks bashing Fisker while those at FiskerBuzz beat up on Tesla. The mission is the same although the means to it differ.
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If we're going to be technical on this, then no, the Karma's ICE doesn't put energy into the battery packs. The ICE puts energy into the motors.
Again, the "driven" thing doesn't really matter. It's what the car is fueled by, not what the car does with that fuel.
Don't want to get OT, so I'll just link to my 2 cents over at the other thread, which already had an extensive discussion on these definitions.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showt...l=1#post162637
Basically what matters for the SAE definition of hybrid is energy storage ONBOARD the car (we are looking at the car as a system, so what happens outside the car is irrelevant to the definition) and whether that energy is used to propel the car (so a normal car battery for accessories does not count nor does a fuel based heater for an EV). It makes no reference to the propulsion method. That part falls to the "EV" part of HEV/BEV/PHEV ("EV" meaning electric-drive vehicle).
Because there are tons of crazy people in this world...
Interesting... as one who has paid little to no attention to this debate, I see a huge difference between a car that burns gas, and a car that can only be propelled by electricity, which can be 100% offset by solar.
Maybe overly simplistic. Maybe that's "bashing"--but that's just the first blush, simpleton way I see it. Technical definitions aside, that's how I draw the line: Does it have a gas tank or not?!?
Therefore, the Fisker is just a more efficient Hummer in my book.
I was at my local Fisker dealer (Who is now gone under or out of business) the car on the floor has 1/8 to 1/4 inch recess of various panels. I was afraid that opening the passenger front door would damage the front fender. The fit and finish was atrocious at best. The Tesla Model S had nothing that I saw wrong in fit and finish. I am a professional Quality Control Inspector.
When comparing the two companies, I see Tesla as the game changers that they rightfully are. The catalyst behind the current EV movement. Fisker on the other hand is just a knock-off company. The only new idea they had was the styling of the car. The Volt was already announced and under development when Henrik went off to build his ego, er, car company. The only reason the Volt isn't a pure serial hybrid is that they found by directly driving the motor, they could reduce the losses caused by the back EMF at high RPM, hence even the Volt innovated (and has patents pending). Fisker failing will have about as much affect on Tesla as the Zune failure did to the iPods.
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