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Thread: Tesla Supercharger network

  1. #1061
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    While the supercharger network is a bold development and marketing step for Tesla, we should not underestimate the value of other DC charging solutions. ChadeMo is one example. From what I have read, the ChadeMo chargers are capable of adding range nearly as fast as superchargers. Tesla should put development of a ChadeMo adaptor/protocol very high on their list of priorities. Wouldn't it be life changing if our society could build out thousands rather than hundreds of fast DC charging stations? This may be one of those rare circumstances where government might actually be able to bring a very big solution to the table.
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  2. #1062
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    Chademo would be about 1/2 as fast as a Supercharger. Still, if there was no Supercharger around and I had the option of using one, I would! Not that there are any.
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  3. #1063
    Petroleum is for sissies ChadS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug_G View Post
    Chademo would be about 1/2 as fast as a Supercharger.
    Maybe. Typical CHAdeMO installs are 48kW, while typical Supercharger installs are 90kW.

    But if 90kW was going in to my battery, I would expect almost 270mph. Over several superchargers, I have averaged just about half of that. Now, there may be several things contributing to the lower charge rate, some of which might also apply to CHAdeMO and slow that down too. But it's also possible that most of the lower rate is due to throttling to protect the pack, which wouldn't have to happen with CHAdeMO. It is possible (though not at all a given) that some CHAdeMO charges would be just as fast as a Supercharge.

    The fact that there are no CHAdeMO stations near you seems a bigger issue.
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  4. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by neroden View Post
    Being engineers, I suspect Tesla management underestimated the amount of time it takes to finish negotiations with landowners and make legal agreements with them.
    Pretty generic assertion. Basis? Are you saying all engineers have no management skills just by definition?

    Quote Originally Posted by neroden View Post
    Tesla's lawyers are not so hot so they are probably having trouble with negotiating easement agreements, etc.
    What's your basis for this assertion? I can think of 2 examples off-hand where we have evidence to the contrary (court cases regarding "dealerships" and Texas delivery experience improving). Has Tesla lost any legal matter on the merits in their entire history as a company (I honestly don't know)?
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  5. #1065
    Model S VIN P01536 Robert.Boston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianman View Post
    Pretty generic assertion. Basis? Are you saying all engineers have no management skills just by definition?
    I agree with @neroden's conjecture. What else could be the bottleneck?

    Quote Originally Posted by brianman View Post
    Has Tesla lost any legal matter on the merits in their entire history as a company (I honestly don't know)?
    Tesla lost its claims against Top Gear. However, litigation skill and contract negotiations aren't necessarily the same. Playing the local ground-game is what's critical.
    Last edited by Robert.Boston; 02-16-2013 at 03:51 PM.

  6. #1066
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    Skill of Tesla's lawyers aside, I believe they have said (at least informally) that negotiating sites is the bottleneck. However, presumably they are doing the negotiations in parallel, so we'll probably see openings speed up as time goes on. Why do they need to open at a steady rate?
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  7. #1067
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    Maybe many sites lack proper power supply. Given that each supercharger has at least 4 slots each at 90kW, you need 360kW of power at peak. This optimization problem of picking suitable places has many many constraints.

  8. #1068
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    I have been helping EVSPs work on these very issues in San Diego. Without a doubt there are two issues that bubble up to the top...It takes a very long time to negotiate lease agreements with landlords. There are usually several parties involved, because the tenant doesn't own the property, the landlord, may not be a US-based person, etc. I've seen some agreements take a year or longer. Second, it makes the most sense to place the units as close as possible to the power source or the installations will be much more expensive...Finding those willing host sites that are okay with giving up parking places and have a decent close-by power source is not trivial...The good news is that progress usually happens, albeit a little more slowly...So in time the sites will get signed and stations will get built out. We just need to be a little more patient...

  9. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeron View Post
    Maybe many sites lack proper power supply. Given that each supercharger has at least 4 slots each at 90kW, you need 360kW of power at peak. This optimization problem of picking suitable places has many many constraints.
    Not quite. There's one supercharger to two connectors. As I recall, each supercharger can do more than 90kW, like 120 or something, but each car is limited to 90kW. Still a lot of power.
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  10. #1070
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    Don't forget that there is a $30K tax credit for installing chargers. That goes a long way towards paying for a site. NOT ALL the way, but a nice offset.

    Tell landlords at your work and they might bite. A charger (not super charger) might be done for $10K in some places. Nice incentive for building management.

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