Page 1 of 50 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 497

Thread: Europe: Future Charging for Model S 1-phase or 3-phase? (Part 2)

  1. #1
    Model S R231 EU widodh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Middelburg, The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,659

    Europe: Future Charging for Model S 1-phase or 3-phase? (Part 2)

    The original topic can be found here: Future Charging for Model S 1-phase or 3-phase ?

    Since the original topic became a bit large, I'd thought it would be best to open a new topic.

    Yes, the Model S in Europe will support 3-phase charging!

    It was quite a big discussion here on the forum:
    * Should the Model S support 3-phase charging?
    * Is 3-phase better then 1-phase?
    * How should the Model S support 3-phase?

    In fall 2011 a letter was sent to Tesla to convince them to support 3-phase charging for the Model S: Endorse my letter to Tesla for supporting 3-phase charging for the Model S

    At the Geneva Motor Show 2012 it was confirmed by Elon Musk, the Model S in Europe will support 3-phase charging: Twitter

    This was also confirmed by George Blankenship on this forum: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showt...l=1#post120317

    Details about the 3-phase implementation have not been made public yet by Tesla. If it will be 3x16A (11kW), 3x32A (22kW) or 3x63A (43kW) is still to be reveiled.

    Please, do continue the discussion here
    Last edited by widodh; 2012-04-12 at 03:53 AM.

  2. #2
    Model S R231 EU widodh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Middelburg, The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,659
    From what I've heard Tesla will install a third 10kW charger in the Model S and connect each charger to a seperate phase. This way they are using the same chargers globally, making it easier for spare parts.

    This will give the European Model S the possibility to charge with 30kW, at 230V that is 3x40A.

    It could be that they will limit this to 3x32A (22kW) with software due to heat build up inside the car, that is something we don't know yet.

    I personally still think we'll get 3x32A and 3x63A would be something for the Model S 2.0.

    I haven't heard anything about the plug design, I'm only assuming they will change their current design for Europe and add two pins.

  3. #3
    Senior Member jcstp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    1,623
    I hope they will make it possible to charge at 3x40A

    I wonder if a 3x63A EVSE can be dialed down to 3x40A by the connectionsignal

  4. #4
    Senior Member dpeilow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Winchester, UK
    Posts
    7,669
    It doesn't need to be, the car will just take 3x40A from it anyway.

  5. #5
    Model S R231 EU widodh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Middelburg, The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,659
    Quote Originally Posted by jcstp View Post
    I hope they will make it possible to charge at 3x40A

    I wonder if a 3x63A EVSE can be dialed down to 3x40A by the connectionsignal
    Like dpeilow said:

    The EVSE has a maximum of 3x63A, but the car is only capable to charge at 3x40A, so it will only draw 3x40A.

    max current EVSE >= max current car

    If the EVSE is capable if 3x32A and the car can do 3x40A, then the car will draw only 3x32A, since the EVSE dictates how much can be drawn.

  6. #6
    Model S EU#P1088 (P85)
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Fredrikstad, Norway
    Posts
    894
    Quote Originally Posted by widodh View Post
    From what I've heard Tesla will install a third 10kW charger in the Model S and connect each charger to a seperate phase. This way they are using the same chargers globally, making it easier for spare parts.

    This will give the European Model S the possibility to charge with 30kW, at 230V that is 3x40A.
    Hopefully they will support delta (230V with no Neutral) three-phase in addition to star/wye (400V with Neutral) three-phase. In Norway we have mostly 230V three-phase. Supporting both should be easy, just autodetect voltage between phases and presense of a Neutral line and connect the chargers accordingly (phase-phase instead of phase-neutral).

    30kW @230V three-phase is 3x75A, 22kW is 3x55A. 3x16A will supply 6.4kW and 3x32A 12.7kW.

  7. #7
    Model S R231 EU widodh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Middelburg, The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,659
    Quote Originally Posted by jkirkebo View Post
    Hopefully they will support delta (230V with no Neutral) three-phase in addition to star/wye (400V with Neutral) three-phase. In Norway we have mostly 230V three-phase. Supporting both should be easy, just autodetect voltage between phases and presense of a Neutral line and connect the chargers accordingly (phase-phase instead of phase-neutral).

    30kW @230V three-phase is 3x75A, 22kW is 3x55A. 3x16A will supply 6.4kW and 3x32A 12.7kW.
    My knowledge doesn't go that far.

    But, if you have 3 seperate single-phase chargers, can you place those in a delta configuration without utilizing the neutral?

    If so, I don't see a problem, since the chargers could handle 200 - 400V thus supporting all European countries.

    P.S.: Upgrade your network! 230V is so 1980! 400V is the future

  8. #8
    TMS 85 owner :)
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by widodh View Post
    My knowledge doesn't go that far.

    But, if you have 3 seperate single-phase chargers, can you place those in a delta configuration without utilizing the neutral?
    Yes. The device can't even know whether it's connected to two phases or phase and neutral - all it sees is 230 V AC, unless it compares them to ground.

    If so, I don't see a problem, since the chargers could handle 200 - 400V thus supporting all European countries.
    Yes, but they must still be delta connected, instead of wye. This would have to happen automatically. It should not cost a lot, but they would have to actually do it.

    jkirkebo: Come to think of it - would not a wye connection work, only at a lower voltage/higher amps per phase, and at the same total power? The chargers can take down to 110 V, so they should be able to run just fine on 132 V (which is the phase-to-neutral voltage of 230 V 3P). It also depends on the max current rating of the chargers at the lower voltage.

    P.S.: Upgrade your network! 230V is so 1980! 400V is the future
    No, its soo 1920... :P

    We are, but it's very much easier said than done, I'm afraid... I'm actually surprised the conversion to 400 V is progressing as quickly as it is. In my case, to get 400 V, the utility would have to install a new transformer which supplies about 20-25 homes, pull new cables (hopefully there are tubes - otherwise they would have to dig up the whole area to lay new five-wire connections), and replace every fuse panel and meter. Not going to happen.

    But commercial buildings do get upgraded, and wherever they develop a new area large enough for a separate transformer, 400 V is used.
    Last edited by eledille; 2012-04-18 at 05:16 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by widodh View Post
    I haven't heard anything about the plug design, I'm only assuming they will change their current design for Europe and add two pins.
    At the anual shareholder meeting, Elon talked a few minutes about the connector that Tesla Motors developed. He was very enthusiastic about their development and I think, that he has some hope, that the Tesla connector will be adopted by the rest of the industry at some point, because it is so much better.

    Now I ask my self, if Tesla Motors will risk this "new standard" by adding a second connector type for the European market. I think it would be much more valuable to Tesla Motors, if they would have developed a connector, that could be used globally.

    So my question is: Do you think, that there is no way, they could reuse the current connector design for 3-phase charging?

    If not, do you have any guesses, how the European connector could look like and if it could be "downwards compatible" to the existing connect0r?

    And do you think, that Tesla Motors will come up with a "world connector" at some point, replacing the current U.S. connector?

  10. #10
    Model S R231 EU widodh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Middelburg, The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,659
    Quote Originally Posted by linaser View Post
    So my question is: Do you think, that there is no way, they could reuse the current connector design for 3-phase charging?
    Impossible, it's lacking the physical pins to connect L2 and L3.

    Quote Originally Posted by linaser View Post
    If not, do you have any guesses, how the European connector could look like and if it could be "downwards compatible" to the existing connect0r?
    Re-design their current connector and add two more pins. The connector will become slightly bigger, but it will be able to connect L2 and L3.

    Quote Originally Posted by linaser View Post
    And do you think, that Tesla Motors will come up with a "world connector" at some point, replacing the current U.S. connector?
    Why not? If they have a 3-phase connector it can also be used for 1-phase connections, no problem.
    BMW M5 E39 - Kawasaki Z750R - 3-phase power - Not a Roadster owner, but the co-owner of my/our company is

    85kWh - 19" Cyclone grey - Pearl White - Tech Package - PDC - Sunroof - Twin-Chargers - Light package - Nappa Leather

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Europe: Future Charging for Model S 1-phase or 3-phase? (Part 2)
    By widodh in forum Charging Standards and Infrastructure
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 2012-07-02, 04:48 PM
  2. Future Charging for Model S 1-phase or 3-phase ?
    By Eberhard in forum Model S: Battery & Charging
    Replies: 581
    Last Post: 2012-04-12, 12:02 AM
  3. Future Charging for Model S 1-phase or 3-phase ?
    By Eberhard in forum Charging Standards and Infrastructure
    Replies: 581
    Last Post: 2012-04-12, 12:02 AM
  4. Model S will support 3-phase charging in Europe!
    By Zorba in forum Model S: Battery & Charging
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 2012-03-06, 08:57 AM
  5. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 2012-02-07, 01:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •