Standard Warranty Revealed

Cool! Par for the course, I suppose, for the class.

Curious what level of battery degradation is considered "normal wear and tear" and what would be "failure" under the warranty. There must have some sort of line between the two?

Trnsl8r said:

Curious what level of battery degradation is considered "normal wear and tear" and what would be "failure" under the warranty. There must have some sort of line between the two?

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Right. Would be nice to see the specifics of the battery warranty.

Did it already show the "Tire pressure monitoring system" before?

Trnsl8r said:

Curious what level of battery degradation is considered "normal wear and tear" and what would be "failure" under the warranty. There must have some sort of line between the two?

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Warranty will probably only cover defects in the battery and not degradation at all....that is a slippery slope for Tesla if they start to warranty batteries due to degradation....

Norbert said:

Did it already show the "Tire pressure monitoring system" before?

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Yes. Check here.

smoothoperator said:

Warranty will probably only cover defects in the battery and not degradation at all....that is a slippery slope for Tesla if they start to warranty batteries due to degradation....

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It is a slippery slope, but one that tesla needs to tread on. Right or wrong, most people are not convinced that EV batteries will be useful 5+ years after they rolled off the line. This will especially be critical on the 40kw, as it does not have the range to spare to loose 50% of its milage after a few years. Tesla needs to promise a certain optimal range for the 8 years, and if the Model S is unable to reach that target within the timeframe, the battery needs to be repaired or replaced. This is what it will take for the average joe to be willing to part with his ICE and go with a Tesla.

Rifleman said:

It is a slippery slope, but one that tesla needs to tread on. Right or wrong, most people are not convinced that EV batteries will be useful 5+ years after they rolled off the line. This will especially be critical on the 40kw, as it does not have the range to spare to loose 50% of its milage after a few years. Tesla needs to promise a certain optimal range for the 8 years, and if the Model S is unable to reach that target within the timeframe, the battery needs to be repaired or replaced. This is what it will take for the average joe to be willing to part with his ICE and go with a Tesla.

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That is true but Tesla has to be profitable with this vehicle....It is impossible for Tesla to promise an optimal range, because the degradation of these batteries depend heavily on factors that they cannot control.

For example if an individual were to run their roadster constantly in performance mode (not sure if there will be an equivalent for the Model S) should Tesla foot the bill for the battery degrading quicker than someone who never uses this mode? Its a highly subjective thing based on a bunch of factors that the manufacturer cannot control....If there is a defect in the battery that is causing it to lose charge then that is something different.

Trnsl8r said:

Curious what level of battery degradation is considered "normal wear and tear" and what would be "failure" under the warranty. There must have some sort of line between the two?

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I'm reasonably sure that they'll be able to examine charging history, etc. They should give specific information as to what is allowed for the warranty to be completely honored.

Agreed, @dmckinstry. The devil is in the fine print, for both the vehicle and the battery warranty.

I thought they promised something like 70% capacity at 7 years for the Roadster at least but not sure if that was in the warranty or just what they talked about in public as their goal.

smoothoperator said:

That is true but Tesla has to be profitable with this vehicle....It is impossible for Tesla to promise an optimal range, because the degradation of these batteries depend heavily on factors that they cannot control.

For example if an individual were to run their roadster constantly in performance mode (not sure if there will be an equivalent for the Model S) should Tesla foot the bill for the battery degrading quicker than someone who never uses this mode? Its a highly subjective thing based on a bunch of factors that the manufacturer cannot control....If there is a defect in the battery that is causing it to lose charge then that is something different.

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Right, but then Tesla needs to come up with some number that they stand behind so that for anomalous cases, the battery would be covered by the warranty, even if it is slightly tilted to protect themselves. If they say that the battery capacity should be no less than 70% after 8 years, then good. Then I'll know if my battery degrades to say 50% after only 5 years, I'll be protected by the warranty.

This is a new technology with a lot of doubters about the battery tech. Tesla needs to be as clear and precise with the terms of the battery warranty so as to instill confidence in its prospective buyers. This actually only serves to benefit them as it would remove some of the uncertainty with the purchase and would promote more sales.

There is no battery warranty out there that covers degradation of capacity. This applies to the Leaf and Volt also. Therefore, it is unlikely that Tesla will cover it in the warranty. Companies may specify some targets publicly (for example the 70% capacity mentioned by dsm363), but the actual warranty terms don't cover it.

The Leaf warranty makes it very explicit:

GRADUAL CAPACITY LOSS
The Lithium-ion battery (EV battery), like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual capacity loss with time and use. Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under this warranty. See your OWNER’S MANUAL for important tips on how to maximize the life and capacity of the “Lithium-ion battery.”

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http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/images/f/fe/2012-leaf-warranty-booklet.pdf

The only spec the battery warranty really covers is power. This is to guarantee the car can perform the same way it did from factory (for example for the Leaf, the battery must be able to provide enough power for the 80kW motor plus whatever accessories before the warranty is over).

stopcrazypp said:

There is no battery warranty out there that covers degradation of capacity. This applies to the Leaf and Volt also. Therefore, it is unlikely that Tesla will cover it in the warranty. Companies may specify some targets publicly (for example the 70% capacity mentioned by dsm363), but the actual warranty terms don't cover it.

The Leaf warranty makes it very explicit:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/images/f/fe/2012-leaf-warranty-booklet.pdf

The only spec the battery warranty really covers is power. This is to guarantee the car can perform the same way it did from factory (for example for the Leaf, the battery must be able to provide enough power for the 80kW motor plus whatever accessories before the warranty is over).

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"It's irrelevant on the Leaf though. 'Everybody says' you can just leave it unplugged for eternity and it will never become a brick."

/sarcasm

NigelM said:

Yes. Check here.

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Thanks!

So the battery warranty lasts twice as long as the car warranty?

Seriously, I'm much more likely to discover warrantied problems in other parts of the car (the air suspension? the brakes? the door handles? the charge port door?) than in the battery. I think it's time to start seeing what they charge for extended warranty.

neroden said:

So the battery warranty lasts twice as long as the car warranty?

Seriously, I'm much more likely to discover warrantied problems in other parts of the car (the air suspension? the brakes? the door handles? the charge port door?) than in the battery. I think it's time to start seeing what they charge for extended warranty.

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Many cars have a much longer power train warranty than the warranty on the rest of the car. The battery is essentially part of the power train if you want to think of it that way.

neroden said:

So the battery warranty lasts twice as long as the car warranty?

Seriously, I'm much more likely to discover warrantied problems in other parts of the car (the air suspension? the brakes? the door handles? the charge port door?) than in the battery. I think it's time to start seeing what they charge for extended warranty.

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Smart move with the labor rate Tesla charges ($175/hr) extended warranty may be almost essential for any Tesla vehicle.

smoothoperator said:

Smart move with the labor rate Tesla charges ($175/hr) extended warranty may be almost essential for any Tesla vehicle.

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And from past experience with Acura, BMW and Mini, extending the 4 year warranty to 7 years would (should?) cost ~$2K.