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Pure BEV Dogma

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bonnie

I play a nice person on twitter.
Feb 6, 2011
16,429
9,943
Columbia River Gorge
I am >>so<< tired of extended range cars grabbing the electric moniker. Tired of it! There should be hybrids, electrics, and .. that. EVERs? (electric vehicle extended range) Something to distinguish would be nice. They're taking the EV goodwill and adding gas to it.

-snit over-
 
I am >>so<< tired of extended range cars grabbing the electric moniker. Tired of it! There should be hybrids, electrics, and .. that. EVERs? (electric vehicle extended range) Something to distinguish would be nice. They're taking the EV goodwill and adding gas to it.
-snit over-

+1. Agree. ...How do we react to DPeilow's plans to get an Ampera?
 
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I think Tesla is absolutely doing the right thing sticking with 100% electric battery only. If nothing else, they don't have to have any staff experts on all those ICE things like emissions systems, fuel injection, etc. Also, they are assured of all the ZEV only perks like carpool access, ZEV credits, rebates, etc.
 
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I am >>so<< tired of extended range cars grabbing the electric moniker. Tired of it! There should be hybrids, electrics, and .. that. EVERs? (electric vehicle extended range) Something to distinguish would be nice. They're taking the EV goodwill and adding gas to it.

-snit over-
I'm fine as long as it does not result in someone making an argument against BEVs using its all-electric-range as an example (I've seen the Volt's ~35mi AER being used frequently as an argument against electric cars).

But it does mislead me (as in excitement when hearing an "electric" sports car / super car being offered, and then "bleh" when finding out it has an engine in it).
 
I am >>so<< tired of extended range cars grabbing the electric moniker. Tired of it! There should be hybrids, electrics, and .. that. EVERs? (electric vehicle extended range) Something to distinguish would be nice. They're taking the EV goodwill and adding gas to it.

-snit over-

hybrids, electrics and
I suggest calling them rangers...

(sorry Tesla)
 
Interesting choice of thread title, shouldn't it be "Proper use of terminology"?

Electric vehicle means a vehicle that is powered by an electric motor drawing current from rechargeable storage batteries or other portable electrical energy storage devices, provided that:
(1) Recharge energy must be drawn from a source off the vehicle, such as residential electric service; and
(2) The vehicle must comply with all provisions of the Zero Emission Vehicle definition found in 40 CFR 88.104-94(g).

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title10-vol3/xml/CFR-2011-title10-vol3-part474.xml
 
Here's the reality check...

I would like to buy an EV at around £35-£40k which has rapid charge and ~150 miles real range. (The LEAF costs £25k in the UK.) I don't think doubling the LEAF battery size for £10k is out of the question, but no-one is talking about it.

So do I wait another 4 years for Bluestar and continue using the gasser?

No. I can do 95% of my mileage (by my calculations) on electric power now and still head off on longer trips at the drop of a hat (which I need to do). That's why I'm getting the Ampera.

I'm fed up with people trying to lump it in with the Prius. It drives nothing like the Prius. It's going to run on electricity all week.

I could take the ICE out of the Ampera and I'd have a 50 mile EV that still could do 100 mph and 0-60 in 9 seconds. If I did the same with a PiP, it wouldn't reach motorway speed and accelerate from 0-60 in ~30 seconds. The PiP couldn't drive the 30 motorway miles to work without the ICE coming on. That is to all intents and purposes why the Ampera is an EV with a backup generator and the PiP is a hybrid.

As for the "dragging around an ICE" crowd - a modern 1.4 litre engine weighs 100kg. Calculate how much the 85 kWh battery weighs over a 40 kWh...

Even if I did have the garage space for a second ICE car for those trips, that's a whole ICE car that sits around waiting for under 5% of my miles. That's about 30,000 miles worth of emissions just to make the thing - not green.

So as I've said before, yes I changed my position on this (about a year ago) but it was when I suspected that the base Model S wouldn't meet my needs (and be a real stretch, which I would only do if it did meet my needs).

The "must be pure EV" dogma holds back electrification as much as the right wing gibberish IMHO.


That said, if someone comes out with the EV I described above then the Ampera will be for sale.
 
Here's the reality check...

I would like to buy an EV at around £35-£40k which has rapid charge and ~150 miles real range. (The LEAF costs £25k in the UK.) I don't think doubling the LEAF battery size for £10k is out of the question, but no-one is talking about it.

So do I wait another 4 years for Bluestar and continue using the gasser?

No. I can do 95% of my mileage (by my calculations) on electric power now and still head off on longer trips at the drop of a hat (which I need to do). That's why I'm getting the Ampera.

I'm fed up with people trying to lump it in with the Prius. It drives nothing like the Prius. It's going to run on electricity all week.

I could take the ICE out of the Ampera and I'd have a 50 mile EV that still could do 100 mph and 0-60 in 9 seconds. If I did the same with a PiP, it wouldn't reach highway speed. The PiP couldn't drive the 30 motorway miles to work without the ICE coming on. That is to all intents and purposes why the Ampera is an EV with a backup generator and the PiP is a hybrid.

As for the "dragging around an ICE" crowd - a modern 1.4 litre engine weighs 100kg. Calculate how much the 85 kWh battery weighs over a 40 kWh...

So as I've said before, yes I changed my position on this (about a year ago) but it was when I suspected that the base Model S wouldn't meet my needs (and be a real stretch, which I would only do if it did meet my needs).

The "must be pure EV" dogma holds back electrification as much as the right wing gibberish IMHO.


That said, if someone comes out with the EV I described above then the Ampera will be for sale.

I have no issue with anyone purchasing what fits their needs. But I'd just like the vehicle classification to accurately reflect what type of vehicle it is. Why should PEV and EVs with an ICE range extender be called the same thing? It's confusing. That was my snit. I understand that a LOT more electric miles will be driven this way (and have said that to a journalist, when asked how I felt). But the name should be different.
 
I have no issue with anyone purchasing what fits their needs. But I'd just like the vehicle classification to accurately reflect what type of vehicle it is. Why should PEV and EVs with an ICE range extender be called the same thing? It's confusing. That was my snit. I understand that a LOT more electric miles will be driven this way (and have said that to a journalist, when asked how I felt). But the name should be different.
Exactly. PHEV's are a good choice for many people, but they are simply not EV's, any more than they are ICE's. Contrary to what David states you cannot pull the ICE out of the Volt/Ampera since the vehicle would not function. You probably could do so with the Karma since it's a series hybrid with the ICE being only a generator, never driving the wheels directly, unlike the Volt/Ampera.
I think David, and others, are taking our criticism of improper use of terminology as a personal attack on their vehicle choice. That is simply not the case, at least on my part.
 
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From a marketing perspective it's even worse. Defining a car as "range extended" or similar terminology infers that it's better than something which doesn't have a range extender. I overheard a Fisker sales person telling a prospect that the Karma was an "electric car that you can drive as far as you want without stopping..." :eek: Oh, how I was dying to jump on that one!

BTW, I don't criticize anyone who buys hybrids and the like as they're all doing their bit. The only criticism I have is for people who insist on buying gas-guzzlers for illogical reasons (take a look at the line of giant SUV's waiting in the car park at school pick-up time, not a single one of them has ever seen mud).
 
It doesn't count on the ICE. It will use it if available and decides it would be better than using electric heating, for example, but it will still operate if there is 0 gas in the tank.

You could theoretically take the ICE out, reprogram the computer to not give fault codes and it would behave like a full-speed BEV. You can't do that with the PiP.
 
I've been at the Toronto auto show for over a week, and I've discovered that I'm "meh" about almost all the cars here - they have ICEs. Not interesting to me now.

The only plug-in hybrid that I can get excited about is the Via truck. That looks like a slam-dunk for fleet use. So plug-in hybrids definitely have a useful niche. Just don't try to imply they're pure EV. GM's marketing in particular is trying to have it both ways, and it's just confusing people.
 
For someone that only has one car and needs more range, I think the Volt is fine especially if a large majority of their daily driving falls within the Volt's electric range. If someone drives more than 30 miles in a day on average, you could argue for something more efficient like the Prius depending on how much over 30 miles they drive.