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Thread: Potential battery pack upgrade for Roadster using Model S cells

  1. #31
    Senior Member WarpedOne's Avatar
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    That should be exciting. Given the Model S uses 3100mah vs the 2400mah cells in the Roadster, they can either:
    1) Keep the same number of cells and get 1.29x the capacity (72kWh) and power (only useful if they upgrade the firmware/motor/power electronics to use it).
    2) Keep the same capacity and use less cells, shaving 22.6% the cell weight (~150lbs) and volume (plus whatever overhead).
    No, they can and I am sure they will do some of BOTH i.e. reduce the number of cells for about 10% and still make a pack with a bit higher capacity, power and lower weight. It will have better acceleration, lower average power (less prone to overheating) and better range at lower price than full option 1.
    I believe in Tesla as a concept, a brand, and a suite of products. No matter who conceived, started, runs, or maintains, I hope it ultimately prevails and lasts.
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  2. #32
    Sig 100 - #52 frequencydip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarpedOne View Post
    No, they can and I am sure they will do some of BOTH i.e. reduce the number of cells for about 10% and still make a pack with a bit higher capacity, power and lower weight. It will have better acceleration, lower average power (less prone to overheating) and better range at lower price than full option 1.
    I really don't think they are going to produce multiple battery upgrade options. there are 2400 cars and only a small portion will need an upgrade in the next few years, the R&D in one updated pack will already be allot. I'm sure they will again redesign the packs in another 5-10 years with the latest cell tech available. The thing that is unique about the Roadster and hopefully Tesla is the idea of these cars are not disposable, and that they can go on forever. When many of our car interiors are shot I'm sure they will offer a seat upgrade, a dash board upgrade etc. The Roadster is a much simpler car when it comes to parts it so easy to replace anything except the frame.

    My personal hopes for a battery upgrade is a little bit of everything, but in the following order.
    1) less weight
    2) more acceleration
    3) more range

    The less weight is really important, it effects everything else; acceleration, handeling, range, tire wear, stopping distance etc. Dropping 150lb is huge, I can really feel the difference of the cars abilities when I have a passenger in the car, imaging that difference when basically dropping the weight of the driver...

  3. #33
    Senior Member hcsharp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smorgasbord View Post
    I wish Tesla would wait another couple of years, so that battery technology can improve even more. Right now there aren't many Roadsters that need new packs.

    I would hope that Tesla would have two options:
    1) More Range, same pack size/weight
    2) Same Range, less weight and that weight set as low as possible in the car.
    I agree with the option choices. It probably wouldn't be much work to offer it for a lot of money now to those who want it. That won't prevent them from improving it continuously so when the rest of us are ready in a few years, it will be even better and cheaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Sharpe View Post
    Sorry but I disagree... I want Tesla to give us lots options... some wealthy early adopters will buy on day one and others will buy later.
    Just curious Kevin, what would be a reasonable price to pay for a 17kw 3-ph charging upgrade on the Roadster?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by hcsharp View Post
    Just curious Kevin, what would be a reasonable price to pay for a 17kw 3-ph charging upgrade on the Roadster?
    On it's own I'd probably pay $5k. However, combine it with a significant range increase then I'd pay a lot more.

    Dream scenario would be 43k 3 Phase and 320+ miles because I could then drive anywhere in Europe.

  5. #35
    #421 Model S #S32 Eberhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Sharpe View Post
    On it's own I'd probably pay $5k. However, combine it with a significant range increase then I'd pay a lot more.

    Dream scenario would be 43k 3 Phase and 320+ miles because I could then drive anywhere in Europe.
    I fully agree with you Kevin. Even 22kW 3 Phase would be fine or DC charging like Model S (or both) then the current range would be sufficient.
    Roadster EU#421 156.000km MS Sig P85+ 68.000km

  6. #36
    Senior Member Raffy.Roma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smorgasbord View Post
    I wish Tesla would wait another couple of years, so that battery technology can improve even more. Right now there aren't many Roadsters that need new packs.

    I would hope that Tesla would have two options:
    1) More Range, same pack size/weight
    2) Same Range, less weight and that weight set as low as possible in the car.
    I would prefer option 1. But what would happen if somebody gets the second battery replacement option now and then a new battery for Roadster based on Model S cells would come out? Would he get automatically the new battery or should he pay extra money to get it?
    Last edited by Raffy.Roma; 2013-01-26 at 07:18 AM.

  7. #37
    Roadster F#25 pharma5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frequencydip View Post
    The thing that is unique about the Roadster and hopefully Tesla is the idea of these cars are not disposable, and that they can go on forever.
    I am definitely in that boat: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showt...s-Future/page4

    If there is a macro upgrade in the works, I am very curious about the possibility of designing in supercharging capability, perhaps at same nominal range with other improvements mentioned on this thread (lower weight via fewer & newer cells, better cooling, effectively better performance...). Would also give faster recharge option (!) + effective range via supercharge network.

    All that rolled up with a fresh "powertrain" warranty might snag a nice price tag. But what would it take - a fresh look at ESS, PEM, and motor?

    If it's a straight pack upgrade, I vote for max range (e.g., same number of the newest cells). And HPCs at the supercharger sites.

  8. #38
    Senior Member smorgasbord's Avatar
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    With so few cars on the road, I want Tesla to choose carefully what they do. Doing battery upgrade now means just a minor improvement, whereas waiting for Gen-III type batteries should bring cost down and capacity up and, maybe most important of all, reduce the center of gravity so that car handles more like a real Lotus. It's not just the weight, it's the distribution of weight, and in Roadster some of the battery pack is up pretty high.

    Water cooled PEM and motor is, of course, something that would be a really big benefit, and I would assume that engineering work could be done now. I recommend that, plus a brake upgrade and then a few years down the road take on the battery.

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