Second-hand price higher than new price?

NigelM · Feb 15, 2012

In the earnings call today, Elon suggested that anyone with a Model S reservation should take delivery whether they want the car or not. He posited that the demand will be so high that the cars will increase in value at least for a while and you might be able to sell it for more than the purchase price!

I'd be very surprised, but who knows?

EVNow · Feb 15, 2012

Initially this was true for leaf.

But a buy & a sell would mean loss of 7.5k credit for both parties.

dsm363 · Feb 15, 2012

I don't think I had to prove I still had the car to claim the tax credit on the Roadster. Why does the seller lose the tax credit?

smorgasbord · Feb 15, 2012

Federal Tax rebate only applies if the car was not purchased for resale.

CA state tax rebate only applies if the car stays in CA.

Don't forget, depending on your state's vehicle sales tax laws, the second purchaser may be paying sales tax twice. And, that's all before the original purchaser's profit is factored in. In CA I figure the second purchaser needs to spend about $15K more.

Lloyd · Feb 15, 2012

smorgasbord said:
Federal Tax rebate only applies if the car was not purchased for resale.

CA state tax rebate only applies if the car stays in CA.

Don't forget, depending on your state's vehicle sales tax laws, the second purchaser may be paying sales tax twice. And, that's all before the original purchaser's profit is factored in. In CA I figure the second purchaser needs to spend about $15K more.

The $2500 State Tax rebate is expected to run out of funds 6/12 from what I remember, and due to the state budget concerns, it may not be replenished.

In California, if the Vehicle transfers twice within two weeks, the 2nd owner is not required to pay tax. Called a 'Dual Transfer'

Also many people do not know that tax is not due between parent and son/daughter, or son/daughter to parent. Tax is due brother to brother. So you can figure a way around this tax!

3lectronica · Feb 15, 2012

smorgasbord said:
Federal Tax rebate only applies if the car was not purchased for resale.

that's only correct if the vehicle is not titled. If you title the vehicle, you will be able to claim the credit even after selling it.

EVNow · Feb 15, 2012

3lectronica said:
that's only correct if the vehicle is not titled. If you title the vehicle, you will be able to claim the credit even after selling it.

The language is not clear. So you may end up fighting with IRS on this.

doug · Feb 15, 2012

NigelM said:
In the earnings call today, Elon suggested that anyone with a Model S reservation should take delivery whether they want the car or not. He posited that the demand will be so high that the cars will increase in value at least for a while and you might be able to sell it for more than the purchase price!

I'd be very surprised, but who knows?

I think he said that to balance this: Delivery without test drive

Andrew Wolfe · Feb 15, 2012

Lloyd said:
The $2500 State Tax rebate is expected to run out of funds 6/12 from what I remember, and due to the state budget concerns, it may not be replenished.

In California, if the Vehicle transfers twice within two weeks, the 2nd owner is not required to pay tax. Called a 'Dual Transfer'

Also many people do not know that tax is not due between parent and son/daughter, or son/daughter to parent. Tax is due brother to brother. So you can figure a way around this tax!

Adopt the buyer?

onlinespending · Feb 16, 2012

doug said:
I think he said that to balance this: Delivery without test drive

That's exactly why he said it, in response to the analyst's question about test drives. To paraphrase, he basically said even if you end up not liking the car that you should strongly considering keeping it for resale value.

WhiteKnight · Feb 16, 2012

EVNow said:
The language is not clear. So you may end up fighting with IRS on this.

How will the IRS know if you subsequently sell the car?

And what's the cutoff? 1 week, 1 month, 3months, 6 months?

Jaff · Feb 16, 2012

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this were (initially) the case...the Model S will have a far wider appeal to most (from both a practicality and cost standpoint than the Roadster) and by delivery time, the cost of gas will probably have hit the summertime peak...lots of folks may start to consider electric and lots of these folks will have the means to secure an S (but like us, will want it now!) :wink:

Still, I'm not the least bit interested in flipping...

NigelM said:
In the earnings call today, Elon suggested that anyone with a Model S reservation should take delivery whether they want the car or not. He posited that the demand will be so high that the cars will increase in value at least for a while and you might be able to sell it for more than the purchase price!

I'd be very surprised, but who knows?

Lloyd · Feb 16, 2012

Andrew Wolfe said:
Adopt the buyer?

HaHA!

Provided a solution brother/sister to brother/sister if one of your parents is living is my point!

brianman · Feb 16, 2012

Jaff said:
Still, I'm not the least bit interested in flipping...

As the 5k-10k thread reminded me, there's a price at which things become less absolute...

For $100k profit, I'd sell my Signature in a heartbeat.

Laurent · Feb 16, 2012

Lloyd said:
In California, if the Vehicle transfers twice within two weeks, the 2nd owner is not required to pay tax. Called a 'Dual Transfer'

Can you point to any evidence of this? A quick Google search didn't yield anything.

Jaff · Feb 16, 2012

Yeah, at 100K profit, you'd have to think about it...you could probably get another order through for yourself for 2013 delivery..."everything's for sale...you just have to negotiate the price!" :wink::biggrin:

brianman said:
As the 5k-10k thread reminded me, there's a price at which things become less absolute...

For $100k profit, I'd sell my Signature in a heartbeat.

brianman · Feb 16, 2012

Jaff said:
Yeah, at 100K profit, you'd have to think about it...you could probably get another order through for yourself for 2013 delivery..."everything's for sale...you just have to negotiate the price!" :wink::biggrin:

Yup. In that other thread, IIRC, someone put his/her number at $50k. I'm sure there's wiggle room among all the reservations to get that profit number down to $20k or so.

Lloyd · Feb 16, 2012

Laurent said:
Can you point to any evidence of this? A quick Google search didn't yield anything.

Double checking, the two week transfer allowance to a 2nd owner only applies to a lease payoff. If two separate buyers are involved, and two sales have ocurred then all the paperwork must be submitted at the same time (no two week allowance) and only one tax will be due. Reference: I called AAA

NigelM · Feb 16, 2012

brianman said:
In that other thread, IIRC, someone put his/her number at $50k.

That was me, I'm obviously a cheaper date than you are.....:redface:

dhrivnak · Feb 16, 2012

A a purchaser of a used Roadster, I can verify the tax credit is NOT available and unfortunately for the first owners but fortunate for me, electric cars have significant first year depreciation. Just check eBay for examples.

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