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UNOFFICIAL: Bluestar Pricing and Options

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VolkerP

EU Model S P-37
Jul 6, 2011
2,464
27
Germany
Bluestar is the Tesla code name for the vehicle platform following the "skateboard" platform on which the Model S and Model X were based. As of today, only very little is known:
  • The platform is intended to spawn an 'affordable' vehicle suitable for mass production, priced at $30k after a $7500 tax credit.
  • Release date of first vehicle based on that platform is 2015 or 2016.
  • Tesla wants to position this platform in size, price, and utility against BMW 3 series.
So now is the time to put all reasonable facts and assumptions on Bluestar together and publish an enthusiasts-compiled "pricing and options" sheet for the cars based on the Bluestar platform.

Bluestar Platform - UNOFFICIAL Options and Prices Based on the Bluestar platform, Tesla hones its world-leading EV architecture to the next level. The refinement of that platform sticks with the Tesla brand of premium quality and performance while at the same time targets the affordable, mass-marketable vehicle promised years ago in the company blog. The platform not only spawns Model R, the long-anticipated successor to the Tesla Roadster, but also a compact-class family sedan named Model C.
All TESLA Bluestar vehicles share the next iteration of the world's leading drive train architecture, consisting of water-cooled battery pack, motor, and power electronics, on board charger, and integrated vehicle energy management. The third iteration of the Tesla plug supports charging architectures in all target markets, be it J1772 AC, IEC 62186 (Mennekes) or DC quick charging standards.
Wasn't that a good bit of marketing burble!:biggrin:

Model CModel RModel R Sport
classthree door compact family sedantwo door roadstertwo door roadster
seats52+22+2
availabilitySummer 2016Summer 2015Winter 2015
base price$29,900*$44,900*$64,900*
standard features12" touch screen
air condition
electric power steering
6 air bags
17" wheels with all-weather tires
2 piston all wheel disc brakes
15" touch screen
air condition
electric power steering
quick charging
6 air bags
19" wheels with all-weather tires
4 piston front disc brakes
15" touch screen
air condition
electric power steering
quick charging
8 air bags
pax retention system
racing performance 6 piston front disc brakes
19" forged alloy wheels with performance tires
leather interior
carbon fiber accents + spoilers
all wheel drive
air suspension
dimensions: height
track
wheelbase
length
58 in / 147cm
60 in / 152 cm
104 in / 264 cm
170 in / 431 cm
54 in / 137 cm
60 in / 152 cm
104 in / 264 cm
162 in / 411 cm
same


*) after $7,500 tax credit


Battery and Drive Train Specifications


Model C
Model C
Model C
Model R
Model R
Model R Sport
capacity30kWh45kWh60kWh45kWh60kWh60kWh
base price$29,900*$34,900*$39,900*$44,900*$49,900*$64,900*
cell type3.4Ah Li-ion NPP3.4Ah Li-ion NPP4Ah Li-ion **3.4Ah Li-ion NPP4Ah Li-ion **4Ah Li-ion **
# of cells217832673696326736963696
range at 55mph140 miles200 miles255 miles210 miles270 miles270 miles
max. power120kW180kW240kW185kW240kW255kW
0-60 mph7.4s6.5s5.8s5.2s3.9s3.2s
top speed105 mph110mph110mph120mph125mph130mph
curb weight3275 lbs3425 lbs3615 lbs2245 lbs2325 lbs2490 lbs


*) after $7,500 tax credit
**) to-be-announced, advanced cell chemistry optimized for automotive appliance.

Charging options
Model C - 30Model C - 45Model C - 60Model R - 45Model R - 60Model R Sport
AC on board charger 10kWstandardstandardstandardstandardstandardstandard
additional 10kW chargern/a$900$900$900$900$900
DC supercharging up to 90kWn/a$1,200standard$1200standardstandard
CHAdeMO support *n/a$4,500$4,500$4,500$4,500$4,500


*) charge power may be limited by the vehicle



Disclaimer I put this information together from informed speculation from the Blue Star Wish List thread and others. Feel free to point out additions and corrections and I will update to what seems to be the consensus.

Motivation Tesla announced Model S prices and options on Dec 22, 2011. They took reservations for general production and signature cars beginning of April, 2009. Though it was clear that reservation holders were putting their money on a "unicorn" with little but the sketchiest data, many were unpleasant with the announcements that Tesla made in the time between, with the latest climax being the announcement of options and prices. A non-exhaustive list of disappointments includes


  • only 300 mile range battery pack for signatures. Sig reservation holders opting for smaller pack sizes faced $20k or $10k price increase over the base and medium size packs.
  • production starts with 300 mile battery pack sizes mid-2012, then 230 mile size in fall, then 160 mile size in winter 2012. Many reservation holders hoped that order of reservation numbers would correlate with production slot and now found that production of their vehicle would be postponed.
  • signature reservation holders found that they pay $3550 to $5000 more than an equally optioned non-sig model, with a narrowed choice of options. In addition to that, Tesla denied rebates for downgrading from some of the options included in the Signature. Some were happy to get the car early, to get a uniquely badged and painted car, others felt very little reward in that and downgraded their reservation to general production.
  • It came as a surprise to some that the smaller battery packs were not capable to sustain the same power for the top model acceleration and were rated down in performance and warranty by Tesla, plus the Tesla quick charging solution (aka supercharging) was only available as an option or not at all. Some reservations were dropped because of that.
As a consequence, this enthusiast-compiled list should serve as a best guess for what to expect from Bluestar and what not.
 
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Excellent work. Must have taken a lot of time.

With regard to the top of the line Model R, my guess is that Elon is not going to be satisfied with anything less than the fastest production car (0-60) in the world. So I think the car will be built from the ground up to go 0-60 in 2.4 seconds. I think he'll do this for ego / bragging rights and the tremendous halo it would provide for BlueStar.

So I'm guessing the Model R will be All Wheel Drive for sure (with two motors). It will be ultralight with maximum carbon fiber, aluminum (titanium?), etc. And I figure it will have something special in terms of the battery, PEM, inverter, etc (electrical engineers help me out here). Like for instance perhaps it will incorporate a bank of ultra capacitors to deliver the huge power needed for the 0-60 sprint.

So as far as your chart goes your weight figures might need to come down a little bit and the price will need to go up a lot. I think it comes in under $100,000 which is a steal compared to the $1.7 million Bugatti Veyron it is supplanting but it will not be much under $100K.
 
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I think the weight numbers for the Model R are too optimistic. A 3200 cell battery is not going to be much less than 500 pounds.
Also the range / kWh for the Model C ( especially the Model C-30kW ) seems very optimistic.

The 0-60 time for the 45kW Model R is too pessimistic for a weight of 2245 pounds. 2245 pounds is about 20% less than the current Roadster, and a 45kWh battery at the same discharge rate is only 15% less than the current Roadsters 53. I think low 4s would be super easy, even cheaping out on the PEM/motor.

All that said, I want one.
 
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3 door, not 5 door?

And a sedan to boot. Won't sell in Europe at all. It needs to be a 5-door hatchback, like the Leaf.
$4500 for CHAdeMO would be a rip-off compared to Nissans $700.
240kW is way overkill standard in the 60kW version. Offer all battery pack levels with a cheaper ~100KW motor&inverter and sell sport packs for the two larger ones. I'd be all over saving $2-3k here as even the Leaf is much faster than I ever need.
Length at 431cm is somewhat too small, the Leaf is 445cm if I remember correctly. I wouldn't want an even smaller car.
 
And a sedan to boot. Won't sell in Europe at all. It needs to be a 5-door hatchback, like the Leaf.
$4500 for CHAdeMO would be a rip-off compared to Nissans $700.
240kW is way overkill standard in the 60kW version. Offer all battery pack levels with a cheaper ~100KW motor&inverter and sell sport packs for the two larger ones. I'd be all over saving $2-3k here as even the Leaf is much faster than I ever need.
Length at 431cm is somewhat too small, the Leaf is 445cm if I remember correctly. I wouldn't want an even smaller car.

I cannot see why CHAdeMO should be $4500. Its only a socket, a Can-bus and some software. price is most political. Maybe CHAdeMO charging station should be upgraded to support teslas socket with PLC communication. Its cheaper, because less stations involved compared to the number of cars being put on the streets.
 
Thanks for the feedback so far. I think we'll let discussion roll on a bit before I compile an update.
Just one thing right now: To live the platform idea, IMO all cars must share a battery pack of uniform size & shape and a common chassis architecture (steel/aluminum). Hence the same wheel base and track. A 85kWh battery pack is out of reach as long as cell capacity is not increased by factor of 2, in comparison to the NCR-18650A with 3.1Ah.
 
And a sedan to boot. Won't sell in Europe at all. It needs to be a 5-door hatchback, like the Leaf.

I love the Model S but being a graduate in his first job theres no way I can afford it. However, with a lot of saving and putting off buying a house I could afford the Bluestar. But as a 5 door hatchback type of person I wouldn't buy one if it doesn't come in this version.

I currently have a 5 door Mazda3 hatchback and would expect the same next (something along the lines of what I have now or a Ford Focus).
 
I doubt the model R will be so cheap. They were able to sell 1,400 first generation roadsters above $100k so I doubt that they will drop the price that much if they make faster, longer ranged models. I could see a bigger, heavier, slower roadster in the $50k-$60k range but I don't think you will be seeing a roadster going 3.2s under $80k.
 
Agree...not sure how you're going to either achieve those 0-60 times with a heavier car...not sure how you can hit the quoted price point with an all carbon fibre / aluminum body / chassis + the battery for 65k...hope I'm wrong though...

I doubt the model R will be so cheap. They were able to sell 1,400 first generation roadsters above $100k so I doubt that they will drop the price that much if they make faster, longer ranged models. I could see a bigger, heavier, slower roadster in the $50k-$60k range but I don't think you will be seeing a roadster going 3.2s under $80k.
 
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Elon has definitely said that BlueStar would be a 5-door. Or, I would think it could be either 4 or 5 (like the previously mentioned Mazda3). I think it has to have both options to be truly successful.

If only one, definitely the hatchback.

Also, I think there will be a sport version of BlueStar (that seems to be the pattern), and I think all-wheel-drive is going to become an option for any Tesla after they develop it for the Model X.
 
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Elon has definitely said that BlueStar would be a 5-door. Or, I would think it could be either 4 or 5 (like the previously mentioned Mazda3). I think it has to have both options to be truly successful.

If only one, definitely the hatchback.

Also, I think there will be a sport version of BlueStar (that seems to be the pattern), and I think all-wheel-drive is going to become an option for any Tesla after they develop it for the Model X.

Well I like the style of the Mazda3 MPS.... so if they go for something like that I will definitely be pleased.
 
Here are some issues with your proposed dimensions:

First the Model R - I think you will have a hard time fitting a 2+2 seating arrangement into a 162 inch long car ( maybe you can, but it may be a Fugly shooting brake thing - yuck )

Second I think you will have a hard time making an aerodynamic 5 seat sedan 170 inches long. Length has advantages, the stubby back end of the Leaf hurts its aerodynamics - and its 175 inches long.
 
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So, what would your vision of the Model C be? VolkerP's assembling and reporting, not opining (much).

Perhaps I am misunderstanding his points but I thought the Model C was supposed to be similar to the BMW 3 series in size and preformance and cost. I see none of that in his idea. Perhaps the "his Bluestar" is two models away ? I see Model X we know to be the CUV, Models R and C which are the 3.0 Roadster and the sedan/coupe/convertible similar to the BMW 3 series which should be on the same platform. Is his bluestar after that ?