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Thread: UNOFFICIAL: Bluestar Pricing and Options

  1. #1
    EU Model S P-37 VolkerP's Avatar
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    UNOFFICIAL: Bluestar Pricing and Options

    Bluestar is the Tesla code name for the vehicle platform following the "skateboard" platform on which the Model S and Model X were based. As of today, only very little is known:
    • The platform is intended to spawn an 'affordable' vehicle suitable for mass production, priced at $30k after a $7500 tax credit.
    • Release date of first vehicle based on that platform is 2015 or 2016.
    • Tesla wants to position this platform in size, price, and utility against BMW 3 series.

    So now is the time to put all reasonable facts and assumptions on Bluestar together and publish an enthusiasts-compiled "pricing and options" sheet for the cars based on the Bluestar platform.

    Bluestar Platform - UNOFFICIAL Options and Prices Based on the Bluestar platform, Tesla hones its world-leading EV architecture to the next level. The refinement of that platform sticks with the Tesla brand of premium quality and performance while at the same time targets the affordable, mass-marketable vehicle promised years ago in the company blog. The platform not only spawns Model R, the long-anticipated successor to the Tesla Roadster, but also a compact-class family sedan named Model C.
    All TESLA Bluestar vehicles share the next iteration of the world's leading drive train architecture, consisting of water-cooled battery pack, motor, and power electronics, on board charger, and integrated vehicle energy management. The third iteration of the Tesla plug supports charging architectures in all target markets, be it J1772 AC, IEC 62186 (Mennekes) or DC quick charging standards.
    Wasn't that a good bit of marketing burble!

    Model C Model R Model R Sport
    class three door compact family sedan two door roadster two door roadster
    seats 5 2+2 2+2
    availability Summer 2016 Summer 2015 Winter 2015
    base price $29,900* $44,900* $64,900*
    standard features 12" touch screen
    air condition
    electric power steering
    6 air bags
    17" wheels with all-weather tires
    2 piston all wheel disc brakes
    15" touch screen
    air condition
    electric power steering
    quick charging
    6 air bags
    19" wheels with all-weather tires
    4 piston front disc brakes
    15" touch screen
    air condition
    electric power steering
    quick charging
    8 air bags
    pax retention system
    racing performance 6 piston front disc brakes
    19" forged alloy wheels with performance tires
    leather interior
    carbon fiber accents + spoilers
    all wheel drive
    air suspension
    dimensions: height
    track
    wheelbase
    length
    58 in / 147cm
    60 in / 152 cm
    104 in / 264 cm
    170 in / 431 cm
    54 in / 137 cm
    60 in / 152 cm
    104 in / 264 cm
    162 in / 411 cm
    same


    *) after $7,500 tax credit


    Battery and Drive Train Specifications


    Model C
    Model C
    Model C
    Model R
    Model R
    Model R Sport
    capacity 30kWh 45kWh 60kWh 45kWh 60kWh 60kWh
    base price $29,900* $34,900* $39,900* $44,900* $49,900* $64,900*
    cell type 3.4Ah Li-ion NPP 3.4Ah Li-ion NPP 4Ah Li-ion ** 3.4Ah Li-ion NPP 4Ah Li-ion ** 4Ah Li-ion **
    # of cells 2178 3267 3696 3267 3696 3696
    range at 55mph 140 miles 200 miles 255 miles 210 miles 270 miles 270 miles
    max. power 120kW 180kW 240kW 185kW 240kW 255kW
    0-60 mph 7.4s 6.5s 5.8s 5.2s 3.9s 3.2s
    top speed 105 mph 110mph 110mph 120mph 125mph 130mph
    curb weight 3275 lbs 3425 lbs 3615 lbs 2245 lbs 2325 lbs 2490 lbs


    *) after $7,500 tax credit
    **) to-be-announced, advanced cell chemistry optimized for automotive appliance.

    Charging options
    Model C - 30 Model C - 45 Model C - 60 Model R - 45 Model R - 60 Model R Sport
    AC on board charger 10kW standard standard standard standard standard standard
    additional 10kW charger n/a $900 $900 $900 $900 $900
    DC supercharging up to 90kW n/a $1,200 standard $1200 standard standard
    CHAdeMO support * n/a $4,500 $4,500 $4,500 $4,500 $4,500


    *) charge power may be limited by the vehicle



    Disclaimer I put this information together from informed speculation from the Blue Star Wish List thread and others. Feel free to point out additions and corrections and I will update to what seems to be the consensus.

    Motivation Tesla announced Model S prices and options on Dec 22, 2011. They took reservations for general production and signature cars beginning of April, 2009. Though it was clear that reservation holders were putting their money on a "unicorn" with little but the sketchiest data, many were unpleasant with the announcements that Tesla made in the time between, with the latest climax being the announcement of options and prices. A non-exhaustive list of disappointments includes


    • only 300 mile range battery pack for signatures. Sig reservation holders opting for smaller pack sizes faced $20k or $10k price increase over the base and medium size packs.
    • production starts with 300 mile battery pack sizes mid-2012, then 230 mile size in fall, then 160 mile size in winter 2012. Many reservation holders hoped that order of reservation numbers would correlate with production slot and now found that production of their vehicle would be postponed.
    • signature reservation holders found that they pay $3550 to $5000 more than an equally optioned non-sig model, with a narrowed choice of options. In addition to that, Tesla denied rebates for downgrading from some of the options included in the Signature. Some were happy to get the car early, to get a uniquely badged and painted car, others felt very little reward in that and downgraded their reservation to general production.
    • It came as a surprise to some that the smaller battery packs were not capable to sustain the same power for the top model acceleration and were rated down in performance and warranty by Tesla, plus the Tesla quick charging solution (aka supercharging) was only available as an option or not at all. Some reservations were dropped because of that.

    As a consequence, this enthusiast-compiled list should serve as a best guess for what to expect from Bluestar and what not.
    Last edited by VolkerP; 2012-11-12 at 05:56 AM. Reason: fixed broken table layout

  2. #2
    Are you speculating or copying from somewhere? Well formatted!

  3. #3
    Member Bearman's Avatar
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    Nice work Volker!

  4. #4
    XP-11626 WhiteKnight's Avatar
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    Excellent work. Must have taken a lot of time.

    With regard to the top of the line Model R, my guess is that Elon is not going to be satisfied with anything less than the fastest production car (0-60) in the world. So I think the car will be built from the ground up to go 0-60 in 2.4 seconds. I think he'll do this for ego / bragging rights and the tremendous halo it would provide for BlueStar.

    So I'm guessing the Model R will be All Wheel Drive for sure (with two motors). It will be ultralight with maximum carbon fiber, aluminum (titanium?), etc. And I figure it will have something special in terms of the battery, PEM, inverter, etc (electrical engineers help me out here). Like for instance perhaps it will incorporate a bank of ultra capacitors to deliver the huge power needed for the 0-60 sprint.

    So as far as your chart goes your weight figures might need to come down a little bit and the price will need to go up a lot. I think it comes in under $100,000 which is a steal compared to the $1.7 million Bugatti Veyron it is supplanting but it will not be much under $100K.
    Last edited by WhiteKnight; 2012-01-19 at 05:56 PM. Reason: fix weird formatting errors

  5. #5
    I think the weight numbers for the Model R are too optimistic. A 3200 cell battery is not going to be much less than 500 pounds.
    Also the range / kWh for the Model C ( especially the Model C-30kW ) seems very optimistic.

    The 0-60 time for the 45kW Model R is too pessimistic for a weight of 2245 pounds. 2245 pounds is about 20% less than the current Roadster, and a 45kWh battery at the same discharge rate is only 15% less than the current Roadsters 53. I think low 4s would be super easy, even cheaping out on the PEM/motor.

    All that said, I want one.
    Last edited by richkae; 2012-01-19 at 08:30 PM.

  6. #6
    TSLA will win Norbert's Avatar
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    I think they (and Panasonic) will try their best to get the ranges the same as the current Model S ranges (while the Model S ranges will increase in the meantime).
    Buying an EV is one thing, being able to drive it beyond city limits another...

  7. #7
    mod squad TEG's Avatar
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    3 door, not 5 door?

  8. #8
    Model S EU#P1088 (P85)
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEG View Post
    3 door, not 5 door?
    And a sedan to boot. Won't sell in Europe at all. It needs to be a 5-door hatchback, like the Leaf.
    $4500 for CHAdeMO would be a rip-off compared to Nissans $700.
    240kW is way overkill standard in the 60kW version. Offer all battery pack levels with a cheaper ~100KW motor&inverter and sell sport packs for the two larger ones. I'd be all over saving $2-3k here as even the Leaf is much faster than I ever need.
    Length at 431cm is somewhat too small, the Leaf is 445cm if I remember correctly. I wouldn't want an even smaller car.

  9. #9
    #421 Model S #S32 Eberhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkirkebo View Post
    And a sedan to boot. Won't sell in Europe at all. It needs to be a 5-door hatchback, like the Leaf.
    $4500 for CHAdeMO would be a rip-off compared to Nissans $700.
    240kW is way overkill standard in the 60kW version. Offer all battery pack levels with a cheaper ~100KW motor&inverter and sell sport packs for the two larger ones. I'd be all over saving $2-3k here as even the Leaf is much faster than I ever need.
    Length at 431cm is somewhat too small, the Leaf is 445cm if I remember correctly. I wouldn't want an even smaller car.
    I cannot see why CHAdeMO should be $4500. Its only a socket, a Can-bus and some software. price is most political. Maybe CHAdeMO charging station should be upgraded to support teslas socket with PLC communication. Its cheaper, because less stations involved compared to the number of cars being put on the streets.
    Roadster EU#421 156.000km MS Sig P85+ 68.000km

  10. #10
    EU Model S P-37 VolkerP's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback so far. I think we'll let discussion roll on a bit before I compile an update.
    Just one thing right now: To live the platform idea, IMO all cars must share a battery pack of uniform size & shape and a common chassis architecture (steel/aluminum). Hence the same wheel base and track. A 85kWh battery pack is out of reach as long as cell capacity is not increased by factor of 2, in comparison to the NCR-18650A with 3.1Ah.

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