Likelihood of a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S

[VolkerP]

You'd hope Tesla would make the Model S able to charge at least as fast as a Zoe.

Tesla will state that it is not necessary to match the Zoe's charge rate because of the bigger range that any Model S has. I bet the Model S EU solution will max out at 22kW (3x32A@400V).

[100thMonkey]

with the Tesla's substantial capacity and the expanding network of L3 along the west coast, it's really the CHAdeMO adapter that is key. It seems to me that S owners will have very little need for public L2 charging. anyone seen or heard any info on a CHAdeMO adapter. One of the things that convinced us to go with the reservation was that the CHAdeMO adapter was reportedly "a month away", about a month ago.

[Larry Chanin]

One of the things that convinced us to go with the reservation was that the CHAdeMO adapter was reportedly "a month away", about a month ago.

Can you please elaborate? Were you merely reacting to the speculation that characterizes this forum, or do you have an authoritative source?

Thanks.

Larry

[AndyM]

Can you please elaborate? Were you merely reacting to the speculation that characterizes this forum, or do you have an authoritative source?

Thanks.

Larry

I'm interested, as well. I had been told CHAdeMO was simply not an charging method for Model S, since it isn't electrically compatible. Maybe through the UMC, it could work.

I would much rather hear about Tesla's official position on this charging capability that lighted vanity mirrors. But, CHAdeMO is not a standard, so I completely understand why Tesla is taking a 'divert' approach to CHAdeMO support.

[TEG]

I'm interested, as well. I had been told CHAdeMO was simply not an charging method for Model S, since it isn't electrically compatible. Maybe through the UMC, it could work.

I don't see how the UMC would help there.

CHAdeMO is not a standard, so I completely understand why Tesla is taking a 'divert' approach to CHAdeMO support.

CHAdeMO *is* a standard. Just not an *open* standard. And primarily a Japanese standard.
In theory, Tesla could join the CHAdeMO group, and get access to the specs.

[AndyM]

I don't see how the UMC would help there.



CHAdeMO *is* a standard. Just not an *open* standard. And primarily a Japanese standard.
In theory, Tesla could join the CHAdeMO group, and get access to the specs.

Excellent point (in re the use of standard).

I was thinking that the UMC would be able to do the signalling translations needed between the Model S on-board chargers and CHAdeMO stations, while no such translations are needed for J1772 stations.
The UMC provides the signalling to the on-board chargers when connecting to "dumb" power sources, such as NEMA 14-50 or common 120V outlets, right?
Perhaps I grossly misunderstand the role of the UMC... Perhaps "U" should not stand for "universal" in the acronym?

[doug]

I was thinking that the UMC would be able to do the signalling translations needed between the Model S on-board chargers and CHAdeMO stations, while no such translations are needed for J1772 stations.
The UMC provides the signalling to the on-board chargers when connecting to "dumb" power sources, such as NEMA 14-50 or common 120V outlets, right?
Perhaps I grossly misunderstand the role of the UMC... Perhaps "U" should not stand for "universal" in the acronym?

Nope. The UMC is strictly Level 2 (and Level 1) AC and is limited to 10 kW, not the DC 50 kW of current CHAdeMO stations. The signaling is very different too. CHAdeMO uses CAN, and we believe the Model S DC signaling uses PLC.

As and aside, the U in UMC (Universal Mobile Connector) grew out Tesla's early offerings for the Roadster. The MC120 had a NEMA 5-15 end, and the MC240 had a NEMA 14-50 connector. The UMC was universal in that you could use it with a variety of "dumb" wall sockets via adapters. Nothing is truly universal.

[TEG]

Another way to put it:
The UMC has a very simple circuit to generate a pilot signal that the car can use to know how much power to draw based on what type of wall plug is on the end. It is almost certainly the same sort of signal that J1772 already uses.
A CHAdeMO adapter would require a more complicated bit of hardware to have a bi-directional communication path between the car and the CHAdeMO charger. Also, either such an adapter would need to speak "CHAdeMO" protocol, or the car would have to have firmware that could send CHAdeMO compatible messages through this bi-directional communication path. It is uncertain if the car is already able to send CHAdeMO type commands. At this point, I doubt it.

The UMC & J1772 are fairly "dumb". The EVSE (including UMC) just send a constant / fixed signal to say how much power is available. CHAdeMO is much more dynamic with car communicating things such as battery pack fulness back to the off-board charger.

[Lloyd]

The problem with Chademo from what I remember reading is that Chademo protocol controlls the charging cycle rather than the car. Tesla does not want to allow someone elses protocol to charge their batteries. An intermediary would have to be constructed to simulate a charging battery allowing the car to continued to dictate the charge, and tell Chademo when to ramp down and finish charging.

Anyone correct me if this is incorrect.

[TEG]

I think that the car has some say in it. For instance, I am fairly sure the car could send a "please stop charging me now" command.
What I wonder is if all of the CHAdeMO chargers are capable of creating high enough DC voltage for the Model S pack?
Not sure if the voltage range of a Tesla Supercharger is the same as a CHAdeMO charger.
Tesla might have decided to use higher voltage so that they could use thinner wire and still get 90kW.
But, I am really just making idle speculation here.