Likelihood of a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S

[Kevin Sharpe]

If Tesla offers a 43 kW on board charger in Europe, then I don't think they need a CHAdeMO adapter in that market.

Agreed, many charging locations do/will support both 50kW CHAdeMO and 43kW AC. Obviously, if Tesla limit 3 Phase to 20kW then still demand for CHAdeMO.

[Kevin Sharpe]

Given the low number of CHAdeMO chargers at the moment, that should be easy.

Outside the US CHAdeMO is doing well - map non-Japanese locations

[jkirkebo]

If Tesla offers a 43 kW on board charger in Europe, then I don't think they need a CHAdeMO adapter in that market.

Not true in Norway at least, we have 30+ CHAdeMO chargers but no L2 above 7.4kW and those are extremely rare. 99% of L2 here is 3.7kW max. Also our grid are mostly 230V 3-phase with no neutral, so 3x63A is only 25kW, not 43kW.

[doug]

Not true in Norway at least, we have 30+ CHAdeMO chargers but no L2 above 7.4kW and those are extremely rare. 99% of L2 here is 3.7kW max. Also our grid are mostly 230V 3-phase with no neutral, so 3x63A is only 25kW, not 43kW.

Then what are those CHAdeMO chargers plugged into?

[TEG]

LEAF Number 1000 to Norwegian customer

...Infrastructure strategy
Ishavskraft has made a plan for upgrading all infrastructure for EVs to a harmonized standard of 400 volt TN system. 2/3 of the Norwegian grid is based on 230V IT system, similar to the Albanian grid and different from the rest of Europe...

...Oliver Paturet from Nissan Europe defined the Norwegian EV market at “The most important” for Nissan ... around 3% of the total car sale in Norway is EVs with Nissan Leaf as market leader...

Introducing Fast Chargers in Norway

...Installing a fast charger
To install a fast charger a high power connection line is required. Most chargers require a 400 V three-phase connection with a high current capacity (63 A or more). At most locations this means it is required to make a new connection to the local transformer station. These stations are dispersed in the power grid and can be found where high voltage power lines need to be transformed down to usable voltage levels in industrial, commercial and residential use. Typically, these stations in Norway provide 400 V three-phase and 230 V single-phase voltages to customers, though 400 V is more common in new installations. If there is not enough capacity at such a station, an additional investment (in the range of several hundred thousand NOK) in the transformer needs to be made to install a fast charger. Generally, this makes it infeasible to install a fast charger today. Further, some sort of concrete foundation needs to be made, and usually a shelter to protect the charger from snow, rain, and dirt is wanted. If customers are required to pay for charging, a payment solution can also amount to around NOK 50 000. All in all, this usually amounts to a total investment cost of NOK 400 000 to 600 000 (€ 50-75 000), even when no further power grid investments are necessary. With one charger per 200 vehicles, this would mean an investment cost of about NOK 3000 per vehicle...

saltony - Quick charging

...Note: Because of the 230V IT Nett in Norway its often needed a transformer in front of such an installation...

[dpeilow]

One thing though, Tesla had their design before CHAdeMO* and J1772 DC.

*I could be wrong on the exact dates, as I don't work for TM.

The CHAdeMO design dates from the 90s. I've seen it on a 1999 Rav4 EV. Back then I am told they used RS-422 instead of CAN for the comms, but it's the same physical design.

[dsm363]

The CHAdeMO design dates from the 90s. I've seen it on a 1999 Rav4 EV. Back then I am told they used RS-422 instead of CAN for the comms, but it's the same physical design.

Why didn't they decide to modernize the plug similar to what Tesla did with the design (I mean purely from an aesthetics standpoint)? If Tesla had simply made their plug slightly bigger and added the 2 pins talked about, maybe they could have had the best of both worlds.

[stopcrazypp]

IMO thats untrue in respect to CHAdeMO which was being publicly deployed in 2007.

IMO Tesla could have easily adapted the IEC Type 2 ("mennekes") connector to support 100kW DC while maintaining backward compatibility with all of the AC standards that exist today. The "mennekes" connector has been around for many years.

I think what TEG says is correct. Tesla probably wanted to use J1772 DC, but it was too slow for the Model S release. The foot-dragging in the IEC is even worse than SAE (the IEC has to deal with bickering between countries like the whole incident with France/Italy's design vs Germany's Mennekes design), so IEC Type 2 probably wasn't a good match either.

Plus, given a bulk of initial Model S sales will be in the US, designing something closer to J1772 probably is the most cost effective route (won't be left with extra pins there are unused in the US), although it is unfortunate that it means no 3-phase support with the current connector. The European Model S probably will have a different connector (same way the "Combo" plug is specified).

Anyways, the reason why Tesla didn't choose CHAdeMO is definitely not because Tesla's design was first. It's a bunch of other reasons (probably the same reasons why non-Japanese automakers have avoided CHAdeMO and have only expressed interest in it if the charging network was already established).

[Monoluv]

Nissan Sets 1,500 - 2,000 DC Quick Charging Target For U.S. By 2014

I do not believe that is true. It is July 4th 2012 and there are only 3 ChaDeMo charges west of Dallas Texas. Only one in California!!
I think it will be more like 2020 before there are anywhere near 1500 Quick Chargers in the USA. Nissan is full of it

[jerry33]

I do not believe that is true. It is July 4th 2012 and there are only 3 ChaDeMo charges west of Dallas Texas. Only one in California!!
I think it will be more like 2020 before there are anywhere near 1500 Quick Chargers in the USA. Nissan is full of it

At the DFW dog and pony show, three years ago now, Nissan said there would be 35 eVgo charging stations in the DFW area by September (of that year). There are now seven. Based on that there will be 300 by 2015.