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Thread: No Supercharging for 40Kwh :(

  1. #1
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    No Supercharging for 40Kwh :(

    Tesla won't be supporting supercharging for the base model which leaves me pretty disappointed. The only reason why they won't do it of course is to drive you to buy the 60 or 85 Kwh models which is pretty sad since I can't justify spending 10K extra just for that option though it would be nice to have.

    So sad

  2. #2
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    I'm pretty sure there are technical reasons.

  3. #3
    V1538 Zextraterrestrial's Avatar
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    so that supercharge stations need not be so close together?
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    Electron Pilot Todd Burch's Avatar
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    Almost certain it's due to the limited C rate as a result of being a lower capacity battery pack (and possibly, to a much smaller extent, older Li-Ion chemistry).

  5. #5
    Senior Member stopcrazypp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairlycool View Post
    Tesla won't be supporting supercharging for the base model which leaves me pretty disappointed. The only reason why they won't do it of course is to drive you to buy the 60 or 85 Kwh models which is pretty sad since I can't justify spending 10K extra just for that option though it would be nice to have.

    So sad
    I kind of predicted this in older discussions (and also how the different packs might have different performance specs). The pure technical issue for this is that at the same power input (90kW), the 40kWh pack will have to charge at 2.25C vs 1.5 and 1.06 for the 60kWh and 85kWh packs respectively. 2.25C is going to degrade the pack significantly faster, while even the 1.5C is kind of iffy for frequent use (1.06C is okay; Panasonic cells are cycle tested at a 0.5C-1.0C). That's probably why Tesla is offering an unlimited mile warranty on the 85kWh pack (and probably won't even need to condition it against supercharger usage).

    I don't see why they can't offer the supercharger running at half power though, for the 40kWh pack. Although maybe they are considering that a 40kWh pack running at half power is going to take up the space for longer (on a per mile basis). And I'm no sure what the "optional" part for the supercharger on 60kWh pack means. Doesn't the same connector already support the supercharger? Maybe there are extra electronics needed (they didn't list a price)?
    Last edited by stopcrazypp; 2011-12-20 at 06:02 PM.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by stopcrazypp View Post
    Doesn't the same connector already support the supercharger already? Maybe there are extra electronics needed (they didn't list a price)?
    There was mention of software: "Includes all software and on-board hardware"

  7. #7
    TSLA will win Norbert's Avatar
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    Another reason may be that it is more difficult to install Superchargers at shorter distances along the highways.

    EDIT: Zextraterrestrial actually already mentioned that above...
    Buying an EV is one thing, being able to drive it beyond city limits another...

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    Quote Originally Posted by stopcrazypp View Post
    I kind of predicted this in older discussions (and also how the different packs might have different performance specs). The pure technical issue for this is that at the same power input (90kW), the 40kWh pack will have to charge at 2.25C vs 1.5 and 1.06 for the 60kWh and 85kWh packs respectively.
    Well, if a 24kWh Leaf battery with no cooling can be quick charged, I don't see why a 40kWh liquid cooled pack can't be. Besides, as you say, they can always use lower current.
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  9. #9
    Electron Pilot Todd Burch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVNow View Post
    Well, if a 24kWh Leaf battery with no cooling can be quick charged, I don't see why a 40kWh liquid cooled pack can't be. Besides, as you say, they can always use lower current.
    90 kW in a 24kWh battery? YIKES. That battery might last 10 cycles .

    If you want to use a lower current, why not use a 240v 50A socket?

    I don't think we know for sure that you won't be allowed to use the Tesla Superchargers. I think all we know for now is that you won't be able to charge at 90kW with the base pack.

    EDIT: After reading it again, I see that it's under a heading of "Super Charger Access" with "Includes all software and on-board hardware"....so it would seem that perhaps the base pack is mechanically or electronically prevented from having access to the Supercharger...so I think you're right about that.
    Last edited by Todd Burch; 2011-12-20 at 06:19 PM.

  10. #10
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    Just to re-iterate, the battery capacity shouldn't affect quick charging.

    A 85 kWh battery can be quick charged to 80% in 30 minutes by applying approximately 136 kW of power. That is 1.6C.

    A 40 kWh battery can be quick charged to 80% in 30 minutes by applying approximately 64 kW of power. That is 1.6C.

    So, even though you don't get the same # of miles out of a quick charge in a 40kWh battery compared to a 85 kWh battery, technically there should be no problem in quick charging the lower capacity battery at the same C rate as the larger pack.

    To use Nissan Leaf example, the 24kWh pack is quick charged to 80% in something like 24 minutes @ 2C. Nissan says the battery can be charged much faster - infact they recently talked about a 10 minute charger (which was badly mangled by most of the press).
    Last edited by EVNow; 2011-12-20 at 06:39 PM.
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