What's Still Killing the Electric Car?

[jerry33]

Well, if it makes you feel any better the Toyota salespeople were the same with the Prius until they found they could sell it for thousands above MSRP. In fact, the dealer who delivered my 2004 was very upset because I only paid MSRP. The Pioneer program that Toyota had fixed the price so that the dealer couldn't mess with it. When I purchased the 2001, the dealer that delivered it acted like I had two heads.

[spatterso911]

Here is my take on the obstacles that the e-car is still facing.
It is irrelevant whether they are true or not, its my worthless opinion that the following are still being perceived as "facts."


1) High cost of purchase.
The best comparison I can think of is the Ford Focus Electric vs the "regular" Ford Focus.
Ford Focus Electric (~$40,000.00) / Ford Focus (~$20,000.00).
And, a greater number of customers walking into the showroom will be able to finance $20,000, but not $40,000.

2) Reduction of utility.
There is a considerable reduction of the number of "missions" that one can perform with an electric car over an ICE car. Based on the current e-cars available today, the maximum distance peeople will drive an e-car is double its range in a day. That is, drive afield to maximum range, recharge for ~4 hours, and drive maximum range again to return home. Most of the trips are up to 1/2 it range, then turn around and drive back home.

3) Range Anxiety.
The range of a today's typical e-car is "about 100 miles." The range of today's typical ICE car is "about 300 miles."
The recharge time of said typical e-car is ~4 hours. The refuel time of said typical ICE car is ~10 minutes.
Whenever an ICE car owner hears these facts, they immediately think of all the trips they have made in their current car that exceeded 100 miles, and decide that an e-car is not going to work for them, and move on.

4) Infrastructure Anxiety.
The current sales pitch touts the fact that you recharge in the comfort and convenience of your own home.
Customers perceive this as "don't depend on charging stations out in the field being present -and- available where you are heading."
A typical example (for me) is a trip from Orange County, Calif., to Santa Barbara, Calif. - a distance of about 120 miles. (Let's say that I could make it there on a single charge.) When I arrive in Santa Barbara, I go to park at the public parking place that has 2 charging stations in it. But when I get there, both spots are already taken, and will be for several hours as *they* charge, not me. Now I have to begin a desperate search for an alternate charging station, if any. If I go on a search and don't find one, my car could die completely and need to be towed. If I stick it out and wait for the two e-cars in front of my I'll be extending my stay in Santa Barbara by an additional 4 hours, minimum. Hey, when I bought an e-car, I didn't sign up for *this* hassle.


Soooo, How do we turn this around?
1) Cost. We e-car owners have to brag (or will brag, when we future owners get one) - loud and unashamedly - about how much money we are *saving* by using an e-car. Wax eloquent. Exaggerate. Lie. If necessary, dredge up complicated facts that "prove" your point. 100 mile range on 30 kWh; $0.10/kWh; = $3.00 per 100 miles. No smelly gas stations. Almost no maintenance (but skip saying "almost"). No slippery tuneup & lube shops, no shifty transmission fixit joints.
And remind them that all that money saved in gas could easily be used to pay for the increase in car payments. With money left over!

2) Utility. This is *not* a reduction in utility, it is a refinement of the original mission of why you bought the car. i.e., I bought it as a commuter car, to and from work, and a few trips to the stores on weekends. Admonish others that they shouldn't try to make their commuter car into the car that will take them long weekend trips from Los Angeles to San Francisco. They have another vehicle besides the commuter e-car. Use *that* one to go to San Francisco. Hey, when I drive I-5, I don't see teeny little commuter econoboxes with me on the freeway, I see enormous SUVs heading up and over the grapevine. Maybe someday, e-cars will do this, but its foolish to wait for that day to come when you can take advantage of the e-car today.

3) Range anxiety. Such anxiety can be dispelled with the realization that as long as you already have a first car that *can* go on long trips, you don't need a second car that duplicates the capabilites (and costs) of the first. Don't try to make it do what it wasn't designed to do.

3) Infrastructure. We have to tell them that there are other people (smarter than they are, apparently,) who have *already* bought e-cars and are taking advantage of the charging infrastructure available today. Just looking at all the busy charging stations is a testament to the fact that people *are* buying and driving electric cars all over the place. Its time to get on the bandwagon. As there are more e-cars, there will be more charging stations. Count on it.

It will be some time before these myths are dispelled, but someone's gotta do it. And that someone is usually in our mirror.

-- Ardie
Its a small cross we have to bear when we are on the leading edge of technology.

The pricing of a Focus vs Focus electric should take into account the differences in standard equipment that comes with each. The "$20,ooo" Focus is a stripped model with no options. To match the standard equipment that comes on the Electric, you will up the price to $24,600. The Focus Electric, bought in CA, comes with about $10,000 of incentives that reduce the price to $30,000. Now you are working with real numbers. From there, you can talk about cost savings, vehicle missions, and environmental consciousness. This is particularly effective when discussing this with parents of small children, who care about what kind of world they are going to leave behind for their little ones.

[Discoducky]

The infrastructure fear where someone else is charging where you want to charge and their is no alternative nearby. Analagous to arriving at the gas station and they are out of gas for 4 hours or more in the middle of nowhere. I'm worried we'll have to always have at least 2 back up chargers inside our range radius as someone could make it there a few minutes before you did and you might not know how much time they have left to charge, when they'll return so you could possibly bargin with them.

Or even worse you make it there, plug in and someone shuts you off (not sure if this is possible but it doesn't look like there is a locking mechanism for the plug; Not sure if there is a way to ensure that won't happen other than staying with the car).

Our long distance travel plans with the 85kWh battery will be well thought out to ensure we have redundant chargers when travelling for more than 400 miles/day or have multi-day destinations.

[Robert.Boston]

@Discoducky: and there's the rub -- people don't want to have to think, plan carefully, and have contingency backups. With an ICE, you don't need to. Ardie did a great job laying out the issues, and we shouldn't minimize their collective impact on quick adoption of EVs.

[strider]

Or even worse you make it there, plug in and someone shuts you off (not sure if this is possible but it doesn't look like there is a locking mechanism for the plug; Not sure if there is a way to ensure that won't happen other than staying with the car).

Unlike the Roadster, Model S will lock the plug to the car - you'll need the key fob in range to disconnect it. Also the car will notify your cell phone that charging was interrupted.

[strider]

@Discoducky: and there's the rub -- people don't want to have to think, plan carefully, and have contingency backups. With an ICE, you don't need to. Ardie did a great job laying out the issues, and we shouldn't minimize their collective impact on quick adoption of EVs.

I've said this before but when I talk to people (I did a lot of talking on Saturday at an Earth Day event), I say the following. EVs of today have the EXACT same problems as cars did as they were introduced. 1) Only rich people can afford them. 2) They have limited range. 3) There aren't enough places to refuel them. Etc, etc. But look at where we are today. The car has replaced the horse and wagon. It will be the same with EVs. Of course it didn't happen overnight. I also explain to people that EVs are the only true "flex fuel" vehicles since it's "fuel" could come from a huge number of sources (wind, solar, NG, coal, hydro, cold fusion, you name it). No one knows what we will use as fuel in the future but you can be guaranteed that they will make electricity from it and therefore can use it to power your EV. ICE's are restricted in the form their fuel can take.

[VolkerP]

change doesn't happen in noteworthy volume. IMHO because the pain to fuel up your ICE grows but still is tolerable. People like to have something to gripe about.

If that pain passes a certain threshold, getting off fuel will become a self-accelerating movement. You may compare it with the transition to digital cameras - as soon as every kid has one, you cannot afford to be seen with your analog film-exposing device.
Thus my theory is, do what you want - brag, evangelize, fight the FUD - but the thing that really matters is OWN an EV, DRIVE it every day and show it works.

[Norbert]

Maybe it's stating the obvious, but the fact that Model S with optional 300 mile range, + SuperCharger network, will demonstrate that current electric car technology comes at least quite close to being able to replace ICE technology (other than price), will, after a few months, have a huge effect on public perception of electric cars and will increase at least the interest in the topic by orders of magnitude.

Even if obvious, I think it is worth pointing out, since recently so many EV bloggers have been focussing on the big-company products Leaf and Volt and their attempt to get into the mass market, and emphasizing the need for lower cost, again and again, as a condition for the mass market. Personally (obviously) I think it is too early to shoot in such a way for the mass market. It just seems premature. I'm expecting Model S to sell more in the first 12 months than either Leaf or Volt did. Forget trying to convince John Doe of buying an EV in order to save a few pennies, amaze people with what electric car tech can already do... as soon as Model S puts the facts on the street, that is. What the Roadster did, times ten. Times ten, because the Model S is that much closer to being the definition of a car.

[daniel]

On Dealers:

When I bought my Prius in 2004, the Toyota dealer was very enthusiastic about it. I paid MSRP and had no problems, though the salesman was woefully ignorant about the car.

When I was on the waiting list for a Leaf, the local Nissan dealer was very enthusiastic about it. He thought it was a great car, and still does, and loves to sell it. (Nissan national, or whoever was in charge of managing orders and allocating cars screwed up my order 4 times and was so disrespectful towards me that I ended up buying the Roadster instead. But the local dealer was great.)

When I visited the local Chevy dealer to drive a Volt, everybody at the dealership was extremely enthusiastic about it. They were delighted to let me drive it, and they praised it constantly. Then several of them wanted rides in my Roadster, and I was happy to oblige. They thought electric was a great thing. They were ignorant of how their own car works, however, insisting that the parallel mode does not exist.

On Saturday at Earth Day I showed my Roadster with the local EV car club, and the Mitsubishi dealer was there with an iMiev, and was enthusiastic about it.

Maybe Spokane is different, but I don't find any of the dealer negativity being reported above. I've never found car salespeople to be particularly knowledgeable about the cars they sell.

As for what's holding EVs back, I believe that price, range, and lack of a mature charging infrastructure are real issues, and I tell people that the ideal fit is for the EV to be the commuter car in a two (or more) car household, while the gas car is for hauling and road trips. People ask me what I do on long trips. I unabashedly tell them that while some people do take the Roadster on road trips, for me it is not a road trip car. It's a day car. For road trips I take the Prius. But with 245 miles of range (or 180 miles at 70 mph) the Roadster is more than sufficient for any place I would go and return the same day.

And the simple facts are that: 1. Batteries are expensive; and 2. Gasoline is going to continue to go up in price.

[Larry Chanin]

Here's a blog entry by Chelsea Sexton discussing the dealership issue.

Chevy dealers turn down more Volts- Hallelujah!

My long-winded description of my experience at a Chevy dealer when I attempted to buy a Volt is currently the last comment on her blog.

Larry