45 Minute QuickCharge

widodh · Nov 14, 2011

I'm helping doug a bit by cleaning up this forum and making this forum more "open" to new users. Some threads are very old and contain outdated information in their startposts.

How does the 45 Minute Quickcharge work?
At the October 1st 2011 event Tesla Motors revealed that the 45 minute QuickCharge of the Model S will be done with a 90kW DC charger.

The biggest battery pack will hold about 85 to 90kWh of power. Charging from a 10% SoC (State of Charge) to 80% can be done in 45 minutes. Charging to a 100% will take a longer time.

With a 30 minute charge you will get somewhere around 150 miles of range. (Only with the 300 mile pack and maybe with the 230 mile pack)

What kind of charger will they use?
Tesla claims to have developed a new in-house charger consisting of 9 10kW chargers as found in the Model S. By placing 9 of these chargers (outside the car!) in parallel they would be able to deliver 90kW of power.

What kind of connector will they be using for this?
At the same event Tesla also showed their new connector. This "Tesla-only" connector will be able to handle up to 20kW of AC power through the HPC 2.0 EVSE or 90kW of DC power with the new charger.

At the moment we are not sure which protocol Tesla will be using, but it is almost certain that without an adapter the Model S will NOT be able to charge from existing CHAdeMO chargers like used for the Nissan Leaf.

Will I be able to install this charger at home?
No, probably not. You will need a 3-phase 480V ~120A connection, not something you will find in a regular house.

Where will I find these chargers?
Tesla will be installing these DC chargers along the major interstates throughout the US (and Europe?).

A lot of discussion about this is still going on, this can be found at: Tesla DC charging network

Tesla told that the first charger will be placed at Harris Ranch, CA along the I-5.

Eberhard · Nov 14, 2011

one single charger use 40A. 9x10kW uses 277/480V 120A 3-phases

TEG · Nov 14, 2011

Eberhard said:
one single charger use 40A. 9x10kW uses 277/480V 120V 3-phases

What does 120V signify there?
Does your description imply that this would be compatible with installations in both Europe and USA from the same model?

W.Petefish · Nov 14, 2011

120v above ground.

VolkerP · Nov 14, 2011

I think Eberhard wanted to type 120A because 3x40A=120A.

PV-EV · Nov 14, 2011

Three phase AC power is given by amps times volts times 1.73 times power factor. A 90KW load at 480 volts three phase is about 108 amps. Power factor is less than 1 so the amps will be some amount bigger.

Mycroft · Nov 14, 2011

For some reason they also wanted to stress that you would be able to get 150 miles of charge in 30 minutes. Of course that would be with the 300 mile battery pack and possibly the 230 mile pack.

TEG · Nov 14, 2011

Other cars with smaller packs advertise quick charging in under 30 minutes, so I think Tesla may want to make the same statement.
Because they have a much bigger pack with longer range, their ability to state quick charge in minutes is at a disadvantage since their full quick charge provides a lot more range. So, basically saying "our partial charge is better than your full charge, and we can do it in the same time" means that it could be better marketing to talk about half hour partial charges. That and I think they know that battery longevity will be better if you don't do empty-to-full "supercharges" very frequently. My guess is that the batteries are better able to handle that rapid recharge current in the middle of their SOC range, but don't like it as much at the extremes (almost empty / almost full.)

They will just need a higher density of public supercharger deployments to make this position workable.

Kipernicus · Nov 14, 2011

widodh said:
HPC 2.0 charger

Should this be more accurately written as HPC 2.0 EVSE ?

widodh · Nov 14, 2011

Kipernicus said:
Should this be more accurately written as HPC 2.0 EVSE ?

You are right! Done.

I changed the Amps from 140 to 120, since you still need a higher capacity then you are actually drawing from the grid.

Lloyd · Dec 24, 2011

widodh said:
No, not all. Tesla recently (December 22nd 2011) released the options and pricing for the Model S where they revealed that the 45 Quickcharge won't be available on the 40kWh battery pack.

.

This statement is not true. Tesla never said that quickcharging would not be available. Tesla stated that for the 40kw battery supercharging network would not be available.

widodh · Dec 24, 2011

Lloyd said:
This statement is not true. Tesla never said that quickcharging would not be available. Tesla stated that for the 40kw battery supercharging network would not be available.

How would you phrase this? I'm trying to keep a clear picture for new users to this forum. That when they read the topic start they have an idea of how it works.

Robert.Boston · Dec 24, 2011

widodh said:
How would you phrase this? I'm trying to keep a clear picture for new users to this forum. That when they read the topic start they have an idea of how it works.

There seems to be some issue about the difference between "Supercharging" and "Quickcharging." I know what Supercharging is: using Tesla's proprietary 90kW Superchargers. I'm not sure what is meant by "Quickcharging" though. As far as I know, the next-fastest charging option below Supercharging is to fully use the 20kW twin on-board chargers.

dpeilow · Dec 24, 2011

Robert.Boston said:
As far as I know, the next-fastest charging option below Supercharging is to fully use the 20kW twin on-board chargers.

Which is not 45 minute charging, so Wido's statement is true.

William13 · Dec 24, 2011

The 40kWh version can take half a charge in 60 minutes using a second inboard charger and the HPC. This compares with the 85kWh version taking half a charge in 30 minutes using a DC supercharger. The second inboard charger and HPC can be afforded by all who buy a Tesla. The DC supercharger will cost as much as a whole car when installed.

EVNow · Dec 24, 2011

Robert.Boston said:
There seems to be some issue about the difference between "Supercharging" and "Quickcharging." I know what Supercharging is: using Tesla's proprietary 90kW Superchargers. I'm not sure what is meant by "Quickcharging" though. As far as I know, the next-fastest charging option below Supercharging is to fully use the 20kW twin on-board chargers.

Quick charging is the generic term used to describe fast charging - eaither DC or AC. It means charging to 80% in less than an hour.

Sometime back it was called L3 - which is no longer used. SAE uses "fast charge".

My suggestion for the thread is to use SuperCharging - since is no known support for any other type of QC.

efusco · Dec 28, 2011

I'm not sure I'm clear on this. Will the supercharger use the same charger port than we would normally use to charge the vehicle? That doesn't seem to make much sense, it seems like it would be better to bypass the built in charger(s) in the car itself and go straight to the battery. Do you think there will be a separate special supercharger connector located somewhere else on the car?

Lloyd · Dec 28, 2011

No, I was told it will use the same connector, but I don't know what mechanism they used to bypass the AC onboard chargers.

dsm363 · Dec 28, 2011

efusco said:
I'm not sure I'm clear on this. Will the supercharger use the same charger port than we would normally use to charge the vehicle? That doesn't seem to make much sense, it seems like it would be better to bypass the built in charger(s) in the car itself and go straight to the battery. Do you think there will be a separate special supercharger connector located somewhere else on the car?

The supercharger will use the same plug as your home charger. Not sure how the hardware works but it does bypass the car's chargers as the DC charger is external to the car.

stopcrazypp · Dec 28, 2011

efusco said:
I'm not sure I'm clear on this. Will the supercharger use the same charger port than we would normally use to charge the vehicle? That doesn't seem to make much sense, it seems like it would be better to bypass the built in charger(s) in the car itself and go straight to the battery. Do you think there will be a separate special supercharger connector located somewhere else on the car?

The way the CHAdeMO socket works is there's a contactor on the car that connects the two big power pins directly to the battery after the handshaking is done.
http://chademo.com/05_interface.html

The Tesla plug is going to do the same thing, except the two big pins are also used by the onboard charger (which eliminates the need for extra pins). They just need to have the contactor be able to switch between the two (and maybe the third option too of being disconnected from both). There is no need for a separate connector (the main reason why Tesla decided to build their own socket).

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