Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Toyota: Threat or Menace?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
It's amazing to me how quickly Toyota has changed from the environmental movement's poster boy to their whipping boy.

I got a long, rambling email today from CalCars in which they lambasted Toyota.

My first idea was to summarize and pick out the main points, but I don't think I could do it justice. So, here's the whole thing. . . .

=======

Toyota's new full-page newspaper ads show an open road, green fields,
an enormous blue sky, and the headline "WHY NOT?" followed by the poetic:

"Two words that are filled with possibilities
They can turn a challenge into an opportunity
An obstacle into an inspiration.

It's a question we ask ourselves at Toyota every day.
Because we're continuously looking for new ways to improve
what we do. By asking tough questions.

Can we make a car that has zero emissions?
Can we improve the economy of a community?
Can we enrich the lives of people around us?

Why not?"

And a link to
http://www.toyota.com/whynot -- where the repositioning campaign is found.

Meanwhile, in the race to bring PHEVs to market, Toyota is
disagreeing with elected officials, climate crisis and other
environmental advocates and companies that suggest we start today
with good enough solutions as the best way to move forward. Here are
reports on how three journalists have responded to all the new
obstacles Toyota has raised to PHEVs.

TOYOTA'S DEVOLUTIONARY PATH
Only a few months ago, Toyota was sounding positive about PHEVs (see
http://www.calcars.org/carmakers.html ). Now the company is turning
almost 180 degrees (ironic, since the PHEV's reverse gear is
all-electric!) Its responses increasingly communicate "not now...not
possible...give us credit for building the Prius...trust us." (Its
new TV ad, visible at the whynot URL shows a Prius effectively built
of biodegradable twigs.) And it's also saying, "by the way, forget
about our support of auto industry efforts to defeat higher CAFE
standards and California's law requiring lower-CO2 cars; ignore our
immensely profitable Tundra truck and don't look too carefully at our
Lexus muscle hybrids" (the latest of which, the 2MPG-better 600h at
$100K, was labelled aggressively as a greenwasher in the Wall Street
Journal http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119395287391379578.html )

The campaign for PHEVs has clearly affected the company. It has
responded by putting a primitive PHEVs on the road -- with one-half
to one-third the range of after-market conversions. (Though even
these dozen prototypes, by confirming that Toyota can switch EV-only
mode up to 62MPH, get people even more excited about PHEVs and more
convinced Toyota could build better PHEVs anytime it wants to.) Its
new strategy is to criticize the shortcomings of its own car and
emphasize the impediments to building anything better.

BACK TO HYDROGEN!
For some time,Toyota has publicly and privately asked the California
Air Resources Board to change its requirement for more hydrogen fuel
cells cars. Its senior executives say the company is focusing its
development resources on hybrids. Surprisingly, at the same time,
Toyota has now begun to publicly link PHEVs with the remnant of its
fuel cell program. This gives journalists the message that both are
equally worthy of attention -- and both are far from practical today.
In its Japanese demonstrations of the PHEV Prius, it put both cars on
the same track for test drives.

Some journalists caught on to the game, like Martin Zimmerman from
the LA Times, who after saying that PHEVs "may have a lot to say
about how we get around in the future," looked at fuel cell cars and
saw "a sticker price of about $1 million. Maybe, as some critics like
to say, hydrogen is the fuel of the future and always will be. But
for a few brief minutes in the shadow of Fujisan, the future felt
awfully close at hand."
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hybrid24oct24,1,7206635.story

Dennis Normile from The New York Times reflected many of Toyota's
perspective in two articles on the Japanese demos. In "Fuel Cell
Hurdle: Only the Price Tag," (which appeared online only Nov. 4 at
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/automobiles/04CELL.html ), he
eagerly reports,

"We've got the systems engineering solved," Mr. Hirose, general
manager for fuel cell system engineering and development at Toyota,
said. "This is close to a commercial vehicle." A brief test drive of
this hydrogen-fueled Highlander at the company's Higashi-Fuji
Technical Center near Mount Fuji gave the impression that the goal of
delivering a showroom-ready model is indeed tantalizingly close.

The reporter loves the smooth, quiet (all-electric!) ride, then concludes:
Some challenges remain. Taiyo Kawai, also a Toyota fuel cell
engineer, explained that fuel cell durability and power density
needed to be improved. But the toughest nut to crack will be cost of
a fuel cell vehicle, which they say must drop a hundredfold to be
commercially viable. Mr. Kawai said that could be achieved by
improving production efficiency and reducing the use of expensive
materials like platinum.
Then there is the issue of building a hydrogen supply infrastructure,
something Mr. Hirose says will require "society-level decisions."
Toyota officials are confident that mass commercialization of fuel
cell vehicles will occur sometime after 2030.

OUR COMMENT: Why would Toyota bother to show a car it won't
mass-produce for 20 years?

MISINFORMATION ABOUT PHEVS
In the other report, in the Sunday print edition worldwide and at
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/automobiles/04PLUG.html , "As
Hybrids Evolve, Gains Grow Elusive,' the same Dennis Normile swallows
the idea that benefits are uncertain and cites a list of obstacles
without evaluating them. We intersperse our comments:

And even when new twists in technology do arrive -- developments that
include plug-in hybrids, which can be recharged on household current
to give them more driving distance on batteries alone -- it may be
impossible to give buyers a measure of how much the advances help
because there is no test to measure their mileage.

A recent drive in Japan of a prototype Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid
demonstrated both Toyota's progress in developing vehicles that make
more use of their electric drive systems and the challenges in
bringing them to market.

By putting its considerable engineering and marketing muscle into
making the Prius the best-selling hybrid car, Toyota established a
reputation as a green leader among automakers. But that image has
been questioned by environmental groups that assail Toyota's push
into big trucks, its stance on proposed United States fuel economy
standards and its participation in a lawsuit challenging California's
right to limit carbon dioxide emissions.

Reasserting its position as the biggest seller of hybrids just before
the Tokyo auto show opened last month, Toyota let journalists drive
what is likely to be its next step toward what it calls sustainable
mobility -- a plug-in hybrid based on the current Prius that would be
more miserly with fuel and would reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

But don't hurry down to your nearest Toyota dealer. Before the car
reaches showrooms it faces some tough road tests, and even when it
does arrive, it probably will not replace existing hybrid designs entirely.
[snip]
Toyota said that better batteries are needed to extend the car's
electric-mode range -- and even the most promising prospects may not
be good enough.

"Some of our engineers think we must go beyond lithium-ion," said
Katsuaki Watanabe, president of the Toyota Motor Corporation,
referring to what is now the leading battery technology for electric vehicles.

OUR COMMENT: Anyone tracking developments among battery companies and
other automakers will be astounded by this upping the ante. The
source is Pres. Watanabe, but he keeps some space between "some
engineers" and his own views. Is Toyota really now promoting the idea
that no type of lithium-based battery is practical? Or perhaps the
journalist misunderstood and Pres. Watanabe means Toyota engineers
want the company to "go beyond" the lithium-cobalt batteries
available to it through its Panasonic joint venture, which have far
more significant safety issues than nanophosphate lithium and other
batteries already on the market in small quantities.

=== continued next message ===
 
continuation. . .

The report continues:
Toyota and the Environmental Protection Agency are mulling over how
to describe the advantages of adding plug-in capability to a hybrid.
The current test, which gives the Prius an E.P.A. estimated mileage
of 55 m.p.g. for combined city and highway driving, does not work.
Toyota estimates that for a daily commute of 15.5 miles, running
costs of this prototype will be about 8 percent lower than the
current Prius if the battery is charged during the day, and 41
percent cheaper if charged at off-peak rates where time-of-day
electricity pricing is available.

OUR COMMENT: Toyota is saying electrical driving costs will be
negligible unless off-peak rates are available. This sends the
message: "(like fuel cells) the infrastructure isn't ready." (Watch
how many states introduce time-of-use pricing in the coming
years.) And it's correctly saying that regulators will have to
figure out baseline measures of emissions and cost savings for cars
that assuredly have major benefits. (A great challenge to face, which
government agencies and the Society of Automotive Engineers are
happily working on!)

By the way, Toyota's 8% number doesn't add up. For Toyota's 15.5
miles round-trip, half could be all-electric with Toyota's small
battery range. Let's assume cheap (these days) $2.50 gasoline, 260
Watt-hours for electric miles on the Prius and US average electrical
price of 9.67 cents www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/epm_sum.html
Standard 55MPG Prius, 7.75 miles = 0.14 gallons or $0.35
All-electric: 7.75 miles =2 kiloWatts = $0.20
Electric miles 42% cheaper at daytime rates; entire 15.5 mile
range 21% cheaper.

The company did the journalist and his readers a disservice by not
reminding him to use the new EPA combined figure for the Prius:
46MPG Prius, 7.75 miles = 0.17 gallons or $0.42 of $2.50/gallon gasoline
All-electric: 7.75 miles =2 kiloWatts = $0.20
Electric miles 52% cheaper at daytime rates; entire 15.5 mile
range 26% cheaper.

The report continues:
Cuts in carbon dioxide emissions depend on the source of the
electrical power. Toyota calculates that in the United States, with
its dependence on coal, the plug-in hybrid would cut carbon emissions
4 percent compared with a conventional Prius; in France, where more
nuclear plants generate electricity, the reduction would be 34 percent.

OUR COMMENT: We urge Toyota to release its assumptions, which are
significantly lower than those of many reports, including the
widely-recognized recent study by EPRI-NRDC study (see CalCars-News).
And it's curious for a company that asks "why not," to be entirely
backward-looking, focusing on yesterday's battery technology and on
the emissions profile of a power grid that was built when no one was
thinking about CO2 and will inevitably get cleaner.

The article concludes:
All those calculations are based on nickel-metal hydride batteries;
going to lithium-ion batteries with greater power storage capacity
would increase the benefits. Toyota, like other companies, is working
on that technology but is cautious about saying when it will be
ready. The goal is to make the combined battery pack and charger
about the size and weight of the current Prius battery, but twice as powerful.

Among other benefits, this would mean Toyota could introduce a
plug-in Prius without a major model change. But, Mr. Asakura said,
the lithium-ion batteries have a long way to go to achieve that
performance with acceptable safety, reliability and longevity.

MISPLACED POSITIONING OF PLUG-IN CARS AND CO2
AND NEW "OBJECTIONS" TO PHEVS

A most important question these days is what will fuel the hundreds
of millions of new cars that are built in developing nations. (See
columnist Thomas Friedman's "No, No, Don't Follow Us" about Tata's
planned $2,500 car for
India http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/opinion/04friedman.html .)
Friedman, a supporter of PHEVs, here rightly focuses on the need to
vastly expand mass transit rather than four-wheeled vehicles.

What does Toyota say? In the Reuters report that follows in its
entirety, managing officer Tatehito Ueda says "China is not the place
for electric cars" because they will run on coal. He doesn't take the
next step in that reasoning to look at the future. As the world's car
fleet increases rapidly and as global petroleum supplies are
increasingly stretched, China and India will turn to gasoline made
from their domestic coal ("coal-to-liquid)." CTL is among the
technologies lumped together as "clean coal" by its advocates. It's
called "perpetual pollution" by the Montana Environmental Information
Center. CTL will be 2-3x higher in CO2 than coal used for electric
cars. Toyota presumes that nothing changes -- that China doesn't
begin to shift away from coal toward renewables (which it must if the
world is to survive), while assuming that large scale carbon capture
and sequestration is unavailable (which we agree is a realistic assumption).

In this Reuters article we're surprised to find additional impediments:

* Some people won't have plugs, so Toyota will have to build two
kinds of hybrids--those that plug in and those that don't (what a burden!)
* The journalist has been told PHEVs are "based on fuel cell
technology" -- from which he concludes that it shares the fuel cell's
"always 20 years away" status.
* Plug-in owners might get tired of plugging in. They would forget
about the cost and environmental benefits and someday feel too
overburdened or impatient to spend 10 seconds on the way out of the
garage at night connecting the car to an extension cord and
unplugging it in the morning. Clearly this calls for years of study.
(As for cellphone owners...)
* Toyota teases us with a great lightweight PHEV: the 1/X. But it's
only a concept....sending the message Toyota would rather wait not
just for perfect batteries but for fully optimized carbon-fiber vehicles.

China is no place for electric cars:Toyota
Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:23am EDT
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUKT11967020071022?rpc=44

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japanese carmaker Toyota is working to improve its
hybrid cars and develop electric cars for the future, but an official
said on Monday that these vehicles would not help reduce CO2
emissions in China.

"In France, 80 percent of electricity is produced by nuclear stations
so if electric cars replace fossil fuel cars then you have a clear
reduction in the emission of CO2," said at Toyota Motor Corp.

"But in China they make electricity by burning coal, so China is not
the place for electric cars," he told the Nikkei International
Automotive Conference in Tokyo.

Toyota has introduced a so-called 'plug-in' hybrid vehicle -- in
which the electric part of the engine can be charged up from the
electricity network -- in France in partnership with EDF and will
introduce this elsewhere as well.

The vehicle is based on its Fuel Cell stack technology, but Ueda said
a lot of issues needed to be resolved to make this a mass technology,
both in infrastructure and in vehicles.

In the meantime, improved fuel economy through reduced running
resistance, or friction, and an improved power train can cut
emissions. Software can help make mechanical actions more precise and
reduce fuel consumption, he said.

At the Tokyo Motor Show, Toyota introduced another possible approach
in its 1/X concept vehicle. Rather than increase battery capacity,
the 1/X relies on cutting vehicle weight with a
carbon-fiber-reinforced body that weighs 925 pounds, or about
one-third that of the current Prius. It is also a plug-in hybrid that
can run on a mixture of gasoline and ethanol.

The problems of changing to a plug-in fleet are not all technical.
Anyone without regular access to an outlet -- that would include most
apartment dwellers -- would be better off with a conventional Prius
rather than a plug-in because the plug-in's larger and heavier
battery pack would cut mileage. Automakers would need to make both
plug-in and no-plug models.

Toyota is also concerned that plug-in owners might tire of connecting
their cars every day. Some answers on consumer expectations and daily
performance should come out of evaluations of the prototypes to be
conducted at the Irvine and Berkeley campuses of the University of
California that will begin later this month.

The uncertainties mean Toyota officials simply won't be pinned down
as to when a plug-in hybrid will hit the market. When pressed, all
Mr. Asakura would say is: "As quickly as possible."

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Felix Kramer [email protected]
Founder California Cars Initiative
http://www.calcars.org
mobile to July 16: 42 36 63 18 59 27
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
 
Menace. Not only because they hinder the common application of electric cars with all sorts of BS designed to create complex vehicles, but because all their cars are beige. The world needs less beige, not more.
 
It is sad how much we have been drawn into talking about hybrids lately.

This forum is about electric vehicles, yet so much press is going towards hybrids lately that we find ourself drawn into that realm.