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Thread: Big increase in PG&E E-9 rates (N. Cal.)

  1. #21
    mod squad TEG's Avatar
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    Does this force non-E9 EV owners to go into the new E9?
    For instance, what about people with Solar+EV in E7 or E6 ?
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  2. #22
    Senior Member smorgasbord's Avatar
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    EDIT: I had made some mistakes on the TOU periods when I first posted this, partially because PG&E revised their first proposal. I believe this post now has the correct information for what was actually adopted. Let me know if there are still inaccuracies.

    It's a bit hard to compare the new and old rates, since the basis and time periods don't match up. Here's one attempt - I'm sure with time we can work up better ways to compare. Here's the document I'm working from: E-4508 Final Resolution (PG&E AL3910-E, 1910-E-A), dated Aug 23, 2012.

    The new plan retain the 3 rates: Peak, Part-Peak, and Off-Peak, changes pricing for each and changes when they are in effect. The current E9 plans have tiered pricing, which means you start at one rate and it increases as your usage that month increases. For me and my one car we often went into tier 5. The new "Schedule EV" plan's pricing doesn't vary by usage. Without getting into the specific tier pricing, here the pricing per kWh & TOU periods for Summer, then Winter.

    Summer:

    Type Current E9A New Schedule EV
    Peak 30-54 cents 36 cents
    Part-Peak 10-34 cents 20 cents
    Off-Peak 5-20 cents 10 cents

    Type Current E9A M-F New Schedule EV M-F Current E9A Weekends New Schedule EV Weekends
    Peak 2pm-9pm 2pm-9pm No Peak 3pm-7pm
    Part-Peak 7am-2pm & 9pm-midnite 7am-2pm & 9pm-11pm 5pm-9pm No Part-Peak
    Off-Peak mid-7am 11pm-7am 9pm-5pm 7pm-3pm

    Winter:

    Type Current E9A New Schedule EV
    Peak No Peak in Winter 27 cents
    Part-Peak 10-34 cents 16 cents
    Off-Peak 5-20 cents 10 cents


    Type Current E9A M-F New Schedule EV M-F Current E9A Weekends New Schedule EV Weekends
    Peak No Peak 2pm-9pm No Peak 3pm-7pm
    Part-Peak 7am-midnite 7am-2pm & 9pm-11pm 5pm-9pm No Part-Peak
    Off-Peak mid-7am 11pm-7am 9pm-5pm 7pm-3pm

    So, note that under the new plan you can start charging at 11pm instead of midnight. If you need more time to charge, then the new rate gives you an extra hour. But note that the new plan bumps you into Peak rates 3pm-7pm on weekends, where the existing plan only bumped you to Part-Peak 5pm-9pm on weekends. That could hurt if you're running air conditioning on the weekends (when you're home).

    In general, people selling solar power back to PGE or people who don't go above tier 2 are better off with the existing plan. People who don't have solar and who regularly go into tier 5 might be better under the new plan. I don't know where the math works out for people in tiers 3 and 4.

    I hope I got the numbers right. Let me know if I've made any mistakes and I'll correct them. The E9A numbers are from the latest PGE document for July 2012.
    Last edited by smorgasbord; 2013-03-02 at 12:20 PM.

  3. #23
    Model S: VIN P 3552 gg_got_a_tesla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEG View Post
    Does this force non-E9 EV owners to go into the new E9?
    For instance, what about people with Solar+EV in E7 or E6 ?
    Good question. According to this, I can stay on E7:

    Select a Rate Option
    Awaiting 85 kWh, Dual Motor AWD, Green, Pano Roof, Textile Seats, Piano Black trim, Tech Package with Autopilot, Dual Chargers, Subzero Package, Active Safety, Smart Air Suspension, 19" Wheels, ETA January 2015

    VIN P 3552 - 60 kWh with Supercharging, Green, Black Roof, Black Leather, Piano Black trim, Tech Package, Active Air Suspension, 19" Wheels, 28,343 miles, Delivered January 2013, RIP August, 2014

  4. #24
    Model S VIN P01536 Robert.Boston's Avatar
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    PG&E's markup over wholesale energy costs is mind-blowing. Here are the wholesale power prices, delivered to the PG&E system, for the Tuesdays this July, aggregated by the same three blocks of time defined in the tariff. (Prices are in $/MWh, so shift the decimal point one to the left to get the cents/kWh)
    7/24/2012 7/17/2012 7/10/2012 7/3/2012 Average
    Wholesale
    PG&E
    EV Rate
    Markup
    Off-Peak $ 21.32 $ 21.38 $ 17.76 $ 16.90 $ 19.34 $100 417%
    Part-Peak $ 31.02 $ 27.25 $ 31.61 $ 25.94 $ 28.96 $200 591%
    Peak $ 44.94 $ 31.49 $ 60.03 $ 35.79 $ 43.06 $360 736%

    Source: California Independent System Operator

  5. #25
    Model S: VIN P 3552 gg_got_a_tesla's Avatar
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    Yes, when it's not Enron price-gouging us, it's PG&E themselves!
    Awaiting 85 kWh, Dual Motor AWD, Green, Pano Roof, Textile Seats, Piano Black trim, Tech Package with Autopilot, Dual Chargers, Subzero Package, Active Safety, Smart Air Suspension, 19" Wheels, ETA January 2015

    VIN P 3552 - 60 kWh with Supercharging, Green, Black Roof, Black Leather, Piano Black trim, Tech Package, Active Air Suspension, 19" Wheels, 28,343 miles, Delivered January 2013, RIP August, 2014

  6. #26
    Roadster NA #1026
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    Paying off the DWP bonds due to the power crisis and nuclear decommissioning costs etc. These are the "non-bypassable" costs (among others). I think that's why E-9 is such a problem for PG&E, that is the tier 1 off-peak doesn't even pay these costs. The highest tiers are only explainable to punish peek usage.

    If you're like me and regularly into the top tiers because you have a tiny baseline and really drive your EV a lot this new schedule is great. Tesla owners will probably benefit from this; Leaf and Volt owners - I doubt they win with this. They just don't use enough power.

  7. #27
    Senior Member strider's Avatar
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    Thanks for the analysis smorg. I'll make sure to peer at my next PG&E bill and run the numbers both ways.

    Though I'm guessing that once we have a Roadster and Model S we'll be pushing into the high tiers (if we aren't already). So although we're on E-9A now, may move to the new one sooner.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member smorgasbord's Avatar
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    I'm thinking that due to the Part-Peak to Peak change for Winter, and my ability to stay on lower tiers during winter (get that $0.05 rate) that I'll stay on the E-9A at least until next May, and then look at switching to the new schedule if I think that makes sense.

    Unfortunately, PGE has never given me true usage per hour indication. I get pages and pages of stuff, but it's impossible to figure out anything except my total usage for each of the 3 peak, part-peak, off-peak rates.

  9. #29
    Member slcasner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smorgasbord View Post
    Unfortunately, PGE has never given me true usage per hour indication. I get pages and pages of stuff, but it's impossible to figure out anything except my total usage for each of the 3 peak, part-peak, off-peak rates.
    PG&E is supposed to have their back-end systems act together sufficiently to install SmartMeters for TOU/Net Metering customers "later this year". That would provide the hourly data necessary to accurately evaluate these rate schedules.

    Robert -- Thanks for pointing out the absurd overhead numbers for PG&E. What is typical for the rest of the country?

  10. #30
    mod squad bonnie's Avatar
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    I did have a SmartMeter until I installed my solar system. It was extremely useful in reducing my usage and motivating me to move some things to off-hours. But when I switched to solar, the SmartMeter went away. Hope that's part of the 'later this year' plan.
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