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Thread: Big increase in PG&E E-9 rates (N. Cal.)

  1. #11
    mod squad TEG's Avatar
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  2. #12
    Senior Member smorgasbord's Avatar
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    I think this is the current (as of May 9, 2012, labeled 3910-E-A ) proposal: http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariff...C_3910-E-A.pdf

    They got rid of tiers, so rates become pretty straightforward:

    Class Mon-Fri Weekends & Holidays Summer Rate Winter Rate
    Peak 2pm - 9pm 3pm - 7pm $0.35656 $0.26694
    Part-Peak 7am-2pm & 9pm-11pm None $0.19914 $0.16472
    Off-Peak 11pm-7am Midnight -3pm and 7pm-Midnight $0.09712 $0.09930

    Note that rates for the separately metered setup (currently E9B) are only very slightly cheaper per kwh (less than 1/2 cent/kwh).

    Of major importance is that we now have Winter Peak rates at $0.27/kWh. Under E9, there was no Peak rate in Winter - just part-peak and off-peak.

    Whether this is good or bad for you depends. Since the daytime rate is lower, the benefit of getting solar is reduced compared to the E9 plans.

    The existing E9 plans have both a lower low rate (under $0.06), but only for the baseline tier, and a higher high rate (over $0.53 for the highest 5th tier). So, big nighttime users with solar won't like this. However, the existing E9 plans "do not reflect PG&E's cost of service," so it's impossible that they'll stick around. People on E9 now will be able to keep it through end of 2014 at least.

    I haven't analyzed my usage, but with one EV I'm already in the highest tier, so with Model S as well I think this is better for me, as I don't have solar. I don't know what effect the Peak rate during winter will have on my bill, though.

  3. #13
    Roadster NA #1026
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    This new EV schedule looks pretty good. Actually looks like someone thinking about the issues spent some time on it while the previous proposed change looked like a total wack job.
    While I've not done my full study yet, this may be a win for me and for Tesla drivers in particular. The Teslas' with their larger batteries make it more likely to charge at home and more mileage overall means a fixed < $0.10 per KwH looks pretty good. It may be tough for people with a lot of air conditioning in summer, but that's the point. For me, my baseline is tiny as I'm in the cool part of the bay area and that pushes me into the highest tier consistently. There is a chance that my usage will make EV-A better for me than E-9A.

    The weekend peek time is fine with me. There was already a partial-peek there so it's really just a rate increase for the hottest part of the day on weekends. You really shouldn't be charging your car then. Weekends were the time for me to get a bunch of stuff like laundry done and being able to do that in the morning on weekends at off-peek rates is nice.

  4. #14
    Member slcasner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smorgasbord View Post
    I think this is the current (as of May 9, 2012, labeled 3910-E-A ) proposal: http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariff...C_3910-E-A.pdf
    Yes, that's the proposal I was referencing. Thanks for posting the details.
    Quote Originally Posted by smorgasbord View Post
    Whether this is good or bad for you depends.
    That's the key. It really does depend on usage patterns. Those who have SmartMeters are fortunate in that they can access hourly usage data, so it is possible to calculate exactly what your bill would have been under a time-of-use tariff.

    I have been taking service on E-9 for a decade. My late evening schedule is not impacted too badly by the late E-9 peak in summer, and we've been able to make lifestyle adjustments to fit. Key for us, though, is the freedom from peak rates during the winter so we can use the electric oven economically.

  5. #15
    #158 MAPC's Avatar
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    At the risk of sounding like a dumb newbie, does anyone know of a 'PG&E Rates for Dummies' thread (or something similar and more civilized) that can explain to me in very simple/layman terms what the various rate schedules mean, how you work with PG&E to set things up, pros/cons?

    I realize that this may seem like a dumb question but I am new-ish to CA and new-er to EV ownership.

    Thanks.
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  6. #16
    Member augkuo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAPC View Post
    At the risk of sounding like a dumb newbie, does anyone know of a 'PG&E Rates for Dummies' thread (or something similar and more civilized) that can explain to me in very simple/layman terms what the various rate schedules mean, how you work with PG&E to set things up, pros/cons?

    I realize that this may seem like a dumb question but I am new-ish to CA and new-er to EV ownership.

    Thanks.
    PG&E didn't want people to overload the system with their EV's so to encourage them to charge their cars when the system demand was low, they offered time of use (TOU) rates to homeowners. Normally you would just pay a fixed rate (E-1) on how much kWh you used, and as your usage went up, your rate went up. PG&E and the regulators establish a "baseline" rate which is the amount a normal household would use and if you went above it, the rates would keep going up - an EV would definitely put you way above baseline usage. You'll need to ask PG&E to switch you to E-9 - check here for info and whether or not you want option A or B - Select a Rate Option

    Option A is what most people have already - lower rates for charging during off peak hours (after 11pm and before 7am)

    Option B is new - a separate meter for the EV only, you'll need to pay for a new meter, etc. - useful if you have high demand during peak hours

    If you follow the links, there's actually a calculator to help you decide which option is best for you based upon where you live and how much you use your Tesla.

    Good luck!

  7. #17
    #158 MAPC's Avatar
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    Thanks - this is very helpful.
    MAPC
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    S Production 15,527 (12/8/12 order date)

  8. #18
    Model S VIN P01536 Robert.Boston's Avatar
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    I heard an interesting presentation yesterday from someone with BG&amp;E (Baltimore area) who had data about the overall capacity utilization of their sub-transmission and distribution systems. For them, they simply want to push EV charging before 4pm or after 8pm. (BG&amp;E is purely wires; getting the energy is someone else's job.) I tried hard to discourage him from requiring a separate meter.

  9. #19
    S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13 jerry33's Avatar
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    Thanks. Once there is a separate meter, it's only a matter of time before the politicians add a road tax to that meter.
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  10. #20
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    The Pubilc Utilities Commission just approved PG&E's revised request to create the 'EV rates' for PG&E's service area (most of Northern California). This resolution is effective August 23, 2012 although PG&E will have six months to update its billing system. Existing customers on the current E-9 rates are grandfathered under that rate until the later of a decision on PG&E's 2014 General Rate Case or December 31, 2014. If you are in the lower tiers then your electricity bill may increase and if you are in the higher tiers then your electricity bill may decrease.

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