Automatic creep makes it impossible to come to a smooth stop

[Stuart]

Below is a suggestion I made to the good people at Tesla. They requested I post it it to the teslamotorsclub forum because they're interested in seeing how much support there is from other people.

I like to drive well. One of the things I was taught when I was learning to drive is that if you're in control of your vehicle then you should be able to bring it to a smooth stop without any perceptible lurch, by gently letting off the brake pressure as the vehicle slows down to a smooth stop. In a manual transmission car if you depress the clutch pedal and brake properly you can do this.

For design reasons I won't speculate about, the Tesla Roadster was designed to emulate an automatic transmission. With no pedals pressed, if it is in drive, it will slowly creep forward, presumably to remind the driver that it is still in drive. However skillful you are on the brake pedal, if the car's motor is trying to make it go, it becomes impossible to bring it to a smooth stop without a small lurch.

I have read discussions about disabling this "automatic creep", but I'm realistic enough to realize there are probably good reasons Tesla wouldn't want to do that. (I have also read discussions about hacking firmware to disable the "automatic creep", but I don't want to do that.)

This led me to wonder if there could be a way that car could let the driver stop smoothly without having to disable the "automatic creep" and a compromise occurred to me: If my foot is on the brake pedal, and the brake lights are illuminated, then the car's electronics know that I'm trying to bring the car to a stop, so why are the car's electronics fighting me and trying to make it go? Would it be possible to make the car's electronics disable the "automatic creep" as long as the brake pedal is depressed? That would allow the driver to bring it to a smooth stop. If the brake pedal is then released then the "automatic creep" would resume, to remind the driver that it is still in drive.

Does that sound like a sensible compromise, to allow good drivers to drive well, while still retaining the safety requirements of "automatic creep" so that driver's can't forget that the car is still in drive?

[TEG]

Related: Who wants the Creep removed?

[TEG]

Some cars may keep a little power to the drivetrain to keep the gears "loaded up" so when you start moving there is no "clunk" from the gearbox.

[Stuart]

This sounds like a personal problem

Yes, I plead guilty to that charge. I am probably guilty of being too much of a perfectionist, and not just in my driving habits. I have seen lots of "creep" vs. "don't creep" discussion, with suggestions for mode settings to choose one or the other (ugh!), but what I hadn't seen before was a proposal that might make both camps happy at the same time. What do you think of the "creep, but not if my foot's on the brake pedal" idea?

[Eberhard]

Stuart, you have simple push the "N" Button, then the creep is being switched off as well.

[Stuart]

Stuart, you have simple push the "N" Button, then the creep is being switched off as well.

Yes, understood. In my 2008 model it's a gear-shifter rather than a pushbutton, but the idea is the same. Still, futzing with the car's controls is an unnecessary hassle. I work at Apple, and we put a lot of thought into user interface. Surely when my foot's on the brake pedal the car electronics should be smart enough to know that my intention is to stop, not creep forward?

[Dragon]

I honestly don't see the problem here. The creep is very minimal and if you brake you'll stop regardless if there is a creep or not?

[TEG]

Another 'creepy discussion': The Torque Pedal

[meloccom]

Actually, there is precedent to this. My A160 Merc has the auto clutch feature and it , the computer, releases the clutch when you press the brake pedal at low 'manouvering' speeds giving a similar effect to Stuart's idea for the roadster. When you release the brake pedal, such as when manouvering or at traffic lights it has a creep feature.
I like this feature and the fact that it is cancelled out by the brake but additionally you need to add an additional rule to overide yours when using 2 pedals for tricky situations like reverse parking up a hill on a road with strong camber. In my Merc I have to be very aware of it's tendancy to speed up when i roll down the camber into the spot if I use 1 pedal.

[AnOutsider]

Not a horrible idea, as I find myself wanting to drive as smoothly as possible as well (which is near impossible in AT cars that creep). As for why Tesla added it in the first place, it could be the whole "keeping the gears engaged" mentioned, or maybe an effort to make the cars feel as close to "normal" as possible to lower barrier of entry for people new to EVs?