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Thread: Project Better Place

  1. #631
    Actually the example of recharge-able batteries for consumer electronics is a great one. The cells may actually be standardized in some cases (laptop cells basically), but the packs are not standardized because it benefits the manufacturer NOT to standardize it (it locks you into buying replacement packs from them and it allows them to customize the voltage and current capacity of the pack without needing the customer to deal with multiple separate standard cells).

    Disposable batteries on the other hand are standardized because most manufacturers can't possibly produce and distribute a proprietary format widely enough to satisfy consumer demand.

    At this point there's no benefit to standardizing battery packs (across manufacturers) because we have not settled on a specific chemistry yet and every manufacturer wants to get exclusive access to the best battery (it's a huge competitive advantage). When EVs become entirely common, we may see standardization (like the examples mgemmell gives out). However, at that point I expect the charging infrastructure to be so well established and battery tech to be mature enough that there is no need for battery swapping.

    Side point: I think the engine sharing example is not an example of standardization, that's just parts sharing. You are merely using the same part (or a modified version). The size and specifications are not standardized such that you can buy a different part from a different manufacturer that meets those specs and is a drop in replacement.

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  3. #633
    Senior Member JRP3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolkerP View Post
    .........


  4. #634
    ERIC VFX vfx's Avatar
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    Here's another reason why we will never see automobile battery standardization.

    The incredibly mediocre J1772 plug here in the US took 9 years to get approved by the car makers and the regulators. Anything more than 5 years will see the benefits of swapping be replaced by cell improvements.

    The world loves to be deceived.


  5. #635
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    Shai Agassi tweeted a journey today. He started somewhere near Tel Aviv, drove up to the Lebanon border and Mt Hermon then down to Eilat. Just over 1000km in around 10 hours I think. His final tweet showed 1000km and a near 100% battery.

    A couple of the switch stations in the south he used are not open for customers yet, but I suspect they will be within a week or two. We have 13 working right now I believe and I don't think he needed more than 1 or maybe 2 extra stations for the last part to Eilat.

    Israel covered. Job done.

    Twitter / sagassi: Driving around the whole of ...

    Twitter / sagassi: Noon: tallest mountain in Israel, ...

    Twitter / sagassi: 7:30 pm south most point in ...

    Twitter / sagassi: 1,000 km, electric car, non-stop ...

  6. #636
    Senior Member JRP3's Avatar
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    Non stop? Not quite. Frankly I'd be quite happy for a couple of fast charge stops on a trip like that. Color me unimpressed.

  7. #637
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    Still a 1000km (620mi) trip in 10 hours. To do this with a Model S 40 kWh would require 6 hours of charging leaving 1000km of driving in 4 hours ... not quite sure Model S is up to it ...

    I'll still chose Model S over the Renault Fluence as I would fly the 1000 km instead of torturing myself to drive 1000 km. The days when I actually enjoyed those drives are long gone.

  8. #638
    Model S 2017 KBF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adm View Post
    Still a 1000km (620mi) trip in 10 hours. To do this with a Model S 40 kWh would require 6 hours of charging leaving 1000km of driving in 4 hours ... not quite sure Model S is up to it ...
    Why would you do a road trip in a 40 kWh S? It won't even exist in 2 years. With even minor advances in battery tech combined with DC super charging, battery swapping is unwieldy and irrelevant. I can appreciate the sentiment behind the idea, though.

  9. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBF View Post
    Why would you do a road trip in a 40 kWh S? It won't even exist in 2 years. With even minor advances in battery tech combined with DC super charging, battery swapping is unwieldy and irrelevant. I can appreciate the sentiment behind the idea, though.
    I went to bed too early. He didn't stay in Eilat, he just took a picture there. He went home too so his total was 1,150 km or 715 miles for the day. That was 22:54, first tweet was 05:51 so that was 15 hours. 76 kmh or 48 mph moving averages and with Israel's roads and traffic and human biology without NASA diapers I'd say it would be hard to do more.

    No fast charging car could do that trip today or with anything on the horizon for the next few years.

  10. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBF View Post
    Why would you do a road trip in a 40 kWh S? It won't even exist in 2 years. With even minor advances in battery tech combined with DC super charging, battery swapping is unwieldy and irrelevant. I can appreciate the sentiment behind the idea, though.
    Not everybody can afford a $67k car... (or even $57k) and it will take more than minor advances in battery technology to bring prices down or make small battery packs accept that big a charge.

    Not everybody has a driveway/garage. Street side charging is possible, but how far would you be willing to park away from your home to find a place to charge your car? What if you live in an apartment complex without a garage?

    My point is that while BP is no alternative for you and me, I think there is a market for EV's for people who will not have easy access to chargers.

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