Project Better Place

[vfx]

Re: Fast charging

I'm in the "Hasn't been invented yet" school.

No one knows what developments are in the lab now. No one knows what Genius is about to have a brain flash that will change the entire battery paradigm.

Yes, the great next battery has been around the corner for 100 years but compare batteries from 20 years ago and you can see major improvements. The same could be done with charging solutions.

There have been many times in the past where science has cheated the laws of physics with clever workarounds. The answer might be chemical, mechanical, electrical (!), biological, or E., all of the above.

Speculation:
A fat cable at a charging station should be ubiquitous. Maybe the batteries can be “tricked” into charging in parallel to avoid overheating; maybe the batteries are immersed in bacta to stay cool while charging. I also like the not-yet-found amazon bug solution.

BTW, Utracaps have such a neat name they should be added to and charging mix just for the cool factor

[tonybelding]

What hasn't been invented yet?

Batteries? I think the batteries existing today are adequate. They aren't the perfect, ultimate batteries, but they are good enough to proceed with -- and way, way better than lead-acid, which EVs were saddled with for about 100 years.

It's funny how there are reactionaries in the EV community who seem unhappy about new battery technology. According to the Wikipedia article on the RAV4 EV:

"A number of electric vehicle advocates voiced disappointment that the choice was made to manufacture only the NiMH version. Many electric vehicle advocates claim that automaker's choice of the NiMH battery worked against the 90's deployment of cost-effective electric vehicles based on PbA batteries, and that further development of Lead-acid technology could result in performance equal to NiMH, but at a substantially lower price."

Then there's Doug Korthoff who appeared in the Who Killed movie. He's a great advocate of EVs, but the poor guy just won't give it a rest when it comes to NiMH batteries. He's convinced that GM could build the Chevy Volt "today" using NiMH cells, and the fact that they aren't doing so proves they aren't serious about the whole thing. It's just another GM greenwashing smoke screen.

I tried to explain to him, it takes GM three-to-four years to bring a new car platform from concept to production -- that means any car, even completely conventional ones. Switching from Li-ion to NiMH now wouldn't make it happen any faster, but would make the car less competitive when it hits the market in 2010/2011. Furthermore, in order to use NiMH cells, GM (or their suppliers) would have to challenge Chevron's patents in court.

[TEG]

Then there's Doug Korthoff who appeared in the Who Killed movie. He's a great advocate of EVs, but the poor guy just won't give it a rest when it comes to NiMH batteries...

...Yes... Being a NiMH EV owner, I tried to point out that NiMH is likely to remain cost prohibitive because the rising costs of Nickel, but it didn't seem there is much I could say to change the tune.


The kind of people (me included) who are "bullheaded" enough to buck the trend and be an early adopter of EVs tend to be rather opinionated about things. Tesla seems to be the best hope of breaking through that barrier and finding more mainstream customers who just want in because it is "cool" rather than "different".

I get the impression that Tesla is trying to ease us into a new mindset of thinking that serial hybrids are a good idea, but I am already convinced and fixated that pure EVs are the answer. Some people are just slow to change direction and hang on to a certain point of view. Others will follow whatever latest marketing is the hip trend of the moment.

[vfx]

Tony wrote:

"What hasn't been invented yet? "

Think big Tony.

We don't know what we don't know.

[Kardax]

All those Chevron NiMH patents are going to expire early next decade, though, so we may see a resurgence of that technology then. Of course, by that time it'll be competing with a variety of advanced lithium-ion-based technologies, among other things.

The only real certainty is that the EV battery situation is going to look very different 10 years from now than it does today. Building a battery-swap infrastructure today is that much more stupid because of it.

Chargers could be an ugly standards battle. We know Tesla has their own proprietary connector... the ZEV-mandate-era EVs used their own... who knows what other players will use?

I don't really care who wins, as long as it's able to automatically negotiate the highest possible wattage, and can also charge my credit card if any fees are necessary.

-Ryan / Kardax

[TEG]

(topic split off from a different one)

[TEG]

[WarpedOne]

Hey, this car IS a Renault Laguna II that is currently being phased out and replaced with Laguna III that looks kinda different. Just a coincidence or is it really Renault that big carmaker that is trying to go there?

[Kardax]

I think I did read somewhere that Renault is the one PBP is working with, so it makes sense that one of their cars would appear in the video.

It still makes my head spin to think about all the robotic engineering it would take to create an automated battery swapping system that works with more than one model of car...

-Ryan

[JRP3]

It still makes my head spin to think about all the robotic engineering it would take to create an automated battery swapping system that works with more than one model of car...

-Ryan

Not to mention it's really unnecessary.