EPA to ban Production racing? Even for EV's?

McRat · Feb 10, 2016

The EPA has no legal authority over auto racing by law.

However, they are attempting a back door effort to do just that.

They are trying to get regulations passed that would forbid any modifications to any production cars for racing purposes. This applies to all cars that the EPA did emission testing on for highway use.

Which actually includes Electric Cars. Yes, the EPA does test and derive a MPGe emissions level for electric cars. Altering anything that would change the MPGe of an EV would be illegal for off-road competition purposes.

Very few people modify their cars for competition. It is not a significant cause of pollution, especially with EVs.

If you feel the EPA should obey the law and refrain from restricting production auto racing, then sign this White House petition:

Tell the EPA to Withdraw Its Proposal to Prohibit the Conversion of Vehicles Into Racecars | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government

S'toon · Feb 10, 2016

Yeah, that's not true. It must be noted that SEMA is the organization representing the aftermarket parts industry. They're sowing FUD.

Basically, the EPA wants to make clear that an exemption for turning nonroad vehicles (and engines) into competitive vehicles does not apply to your street car, even if it’s a track-only car.

http://jalopnik.com/the-epas-crackdown-on-race-cars-explained-1758111546

You know, if something sounds fantastical on the internet, try and do a quick web search to confirm if it's true or not before doing anything else.

McRat · Feb 10, 2016

Non-Road vehicles have always been, and will continue to be exempt from Federal law.

This new effort is only going to affect passenger vehicles that are monitored by the EPA.

In the past, low dollar racing efforts always started with a production car (not usually a farm tractor or snowmobile) as a start point.

The EPA wants that to end, claiming a race car cannot be built from anything that was EPA tested.

vinnie97 · Feb 10, 2016

Just another reminder that DC is inhabited by overbearing control freaks.

Caligula · Feb 11, 2016

Welp, no more modified riding mower races! Heh

McRat · Feb 11, 2016

Caligula said:
Welp, no more modified riding mower races! Heh

You are reading it backwards. The EPA still cannot control off-road vehicles used for racing. Mower racing will remain exempt. What the EPA is saying, is that a race car is no longer classified as an off-road vehicle if you started with a vehicle that was tested by the EPA.

Gizmotoy · Feb 12, 2016

S'toon said:
Yeah, that's not true. It must be noted that SEMA is the organization representing the aftermarket parts industry. They're sowing FUD.
http://jalopnik.com/the-epas-crackdown-on-race-cars-explained-1758111546
You know, if something sounds fantastical on the internet, try and do a quick web search to confirm if it's true or not before doing anything else.

Is it FUD? That quote means the EPA is clarifying (changing?) their rules to state that EPA-certified vehicles cannot be non-road vehicles, even if they're used solely as track vehicles. It contradicts your other statements. From your very own link, just one paragraph down:

McDonald said that for decades, the Clean Air Act was understood not to apply to competitive vehicles, but now the EPA contends that has never been the case. Indeed, the EPA has confirmed as much in its own statements to the public:
People may use EPA-certified motor vehicles for competition, but to protect public health from air pollution, the Clean Air Act has – since its inception – specifically prohibited tampering with or defeating the emission control systems on those vehicles.

This sounds like exactly what is claimed by the OP, and came from a statement directly from the EPA. So the situation is actually that prior to this point no one expected modified production vehicles used solely for competition to be covered by EPA regulations. Now the EPA says they've always been covered by their regulations, but that they will take into consideration whether a vehicle is used for competition when selecting cases for enforcement.

Further, the EPA goes on to say:

The EPA remains primarily concerned with cases where the tampered vehicle is used on public roads, and more specifically with aftermarket manufacturers who sell devices that defeat emission control systems on vehicles used on public roads.

So how, then, do you convert your production vehicle into a track car if the EPA has brought actions against the manufacturers who produce those parts you require to do so? Because that manufacturer is not going to be able to ensure that parts it sells never make it onto vehicles on public roads. How could they?

gregincal · Feb 12, 2016

Gizmotoy said:
Because that manufacturer is not going to be able to ensure that parts it sells never make it onto vehicles on public roads. How could they?

Which of course is the whole reason the EPA wants to be able to crack down on the manufacturers. My guess is that the VW scandal has them worried that parts manufacturers are going to start making parts that pass when tested and behave differently at other times, and they won't be able to stop them from being sold because they claim they are only for racing cars.

Gizmotoy · Feb 12, 2016

gregincal said:
Which of course is the whole reason the EPA wants to be able to crack down on the manufacturers. My guess is that the VW scandal has them worried that parts manufacturers are going to start making parts that pass when tested and behave differently at other times, and they won't be able to stop them from being sold because they claim they are only for racing cars.

The problem being that the only possible way to make that work is for government intervention. Essentially, they need to make it mandatory to register track vehicles, and then the parts manufacturers will have to check that registration before selling the parts.

Just going after the manufacturers without having the framework in place for them to actually follow the regulations is a problem.

And even then there's bound to be issues. What happens when someone with a valid, registered track vehicle takes the part and sticks it on their road car? Is that the manufacturer's responsibility?

S'toon · Feb 14, 2016

<snip>

In fact, as Road & Track points out, the proposed rules are a clarification of provisions that have been in effect since 1977. Under EPA rules, it has always been illegal to modify the emission control system of any engine intended for street use. If you bring your track day car to a race weekend on a trailer, you’ve got nothing to worry about. If, on the other hand, you drive your race car to the track on public roads, the engine in that car must meet all applicable emissions standards in effect on the date of manufacture.

What the EPA seems to be primarily concerned with is aftermarket companies that sell performance gear for street cars that bypasses or eliminates any software or hardware associated with meeting EPA rules. In 2012 it sued Edge Products for selling a device that allowed pickup truck engines to bypass their diesel particulate filters. EPA Deputy Press Secretary Laura Allen says, “People may use EPA-certified motor vehicles for competition, but to protect public health from air pollution, the Clean Air Act has… specifically prohibited tampering with or defeating the emission control systems on those vehicles.”

According to The Drive, “It has been illegal to modify any emissions equipment on any engine sold for road-legal use in the US since the Clean Air Act was amended in 1977.” Doing so is classified as “tampering.” In 1980, the EPA defined tampering as “removing, disconnecting, damaging, or in any way rendering ineffective any emission control device or element installed on a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine.” In 1993, the definition was amended to include adding a turbocharger. The most recent update came in 2009 and includes a list of Prohibited Acts.

<snip>

In other words, nothing much has changed. It has always been illegal to tamper with emissions controls. If your track day car is missing its catalytic converter or has had its computer reprogrammed, you could be in violation of the law. Thankfully, the EPA has never been known to raid a local autocross and shows no inclination to start now. So keep calm and race on. The EPA has bigger fish to fry than checking on what’s coming out the tailpipe of your spec racer.

Full article at:
http://gas2.org/2016/02/14/the-low-down-on-the-epa-race-car-modification-flap-doodle/

Gizmotoy · Feb 16, 2016

S'toon said:
Full article at:
http://gas2.org/2016/02/14/the-low-down-on-the-epa-race-car-modification-flap-doodle/

While the vast majority of articles on the subject dig into the changes, there's been a couple of articles framed like this one, and they're very interesting. They have click-baity titles like "No, the EPA Didn't Just Outlaw Your Racecar" and then go on to describe how, in fact, the EPA did just state, almost word-for-word, that your racecar is illegal. The justification being that, "Don't worry, it's OK. We're just not going to enforce it."

The reason both of these things can be true is because they've clarified (changed.) what constitutes a non-road vehicle. Using the prior text, a track vehicle would be a non-road vehicle and exempt from the provisions quoted in all of those articles you've listed. In the latest regulations, a motor vehicle can no longer be a non-road vehicle, which would instantly make practically every track vehicle illegal. The change of the text, and how they've framed the reasoning for the change, allows the EPA to make statements like "it's been illegal since 1977" without that having actually been understood to be the case.

So why even bother with the change if they're not going to enforce it? Because they're going to litigate against the companies that make track cars possible. I suppose it's better than getting sued directly, but the result will be the same either way.

stopcrazypp · Feb 16, 2016

Gizmotoy said:
While the vast majority of articles on the subject dig into the changes, there's been a couple of articles framed like this one, and they're very interesting. They have click-baity titles like "No, the EPA Didn't Just Outlaw Your Racecar" and then go on to describe how, in fact, the EPA did just state, almost word-for-word, that your racecar is illegal. The justification being that, "Don't worry, it's OK. We're just not going to enforce it."

The reason both of these things can be true is because they've clarified (changed.) what constitutes a non-road vehicle. Using the prior text, a track vehicle would be a non-road vehicle and exempt from the provisions quoted in all of those articles you've listed. In the latest regulations, a motor vehicle can no longer be a non-road vehicle, which would instantly make practically every track vehicle illegal. The change of the text, and how they've framed the reasoning for the change, allows the EPA to make statements like "it's been illegal since 1977" without that having actually been understood to be the case.

So why even bother with the change if they're not going to enforce it? Because they're going to litigate against the companies that make track cars possible. I suppose it's better than getting sued directly, but the result will be the same either way.

The EPA seems to be correct in this case.

As referenced in Jalopnik article:
http://jalopnik.com/the-epas-crackdown-on-race-cars-explained-1758111546

The existing exemption under 40 CFR 1068.235 for engines/equipment used for competition only applies to new engines/equipment produced solely for competition and also nonroad engines/equipment.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/1068.235

The EPA and Clean Air Act had always defined nonroad engines/equipment as exclusive of cars (instead it covers things like lawnmowers and tractors). This has never changed.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/89.2
http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/standards/basicinfo.htm

Thus the new clarification as quoted below does not materially change the situation here, but rather makes it clear for people who have been interpreting "nonroad" to mean something else (mainly a car not driven on public roads).

EPA is proposing in 40 CFR 1037.601(a)(3) to clarify that the Clean Air Act does not allow any person to disable, remove, or render inoperative (i.e., tamper with) emission controls on a certified motor vehicle for purposes of competition.

Even under existing law, EPA can technically get on your case for modifying the emissions equipment even for a track car. It is just that they don't enforce when the vehicle is not used on public roads.

As per the OP, I don't think this affects EVs at all because there are no emissions equipment (no tailpipe emissions) that the EPA regulates.

Gizmotoy · Feb 16, 2016

stopcrazypp said:
The EPA seems to be correct in this case.

Sadly, I'd conflated the act's definition of non-road with the actual use of vehicles off the road, making my post probably only make sense to myself. I should probably modify or delete it, I suppose.

There are several preliminary legal analysis in progress, but at least one completed thus far disagrees with that assessment: http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/imag...tm_campaign=LeMons+Law+Brief&utm_medium=email

It's an interesting topic. Unfortunately, no matter who is found to be right, the result seems certain to have an effect on the parts market. Like a lot of things these days, there's no way for an individual to maintain a vehicle on their own without parts access. Currently there's no way for a manufacturer to verify the customer has a track vehicle. Assessing fines for selling to customers without one, and no way to verify that's the case, seems certain to lead to manufacturers closing.

stopcrazypp said:
As per the OP, I don't think this affects EVs at all because there are no emissions equipment (no tailpipe emissions) that the EPA regulates.

Is that actually the case? My Tesla has an EPA sticker under the hood detailing the emissions equipment, and in California the DMV had to verify it before I could register the vehicle. Clearly there's no tailpipe emissions equipment to tamper with, but they seem to have some kind of regulation in place.

Edit: I'll note that I have a vehicle that was at one point technically illegal under both the proposed and current regulations. It ran extremely rich stock, and barely passed CA emissions at 3 years old. Black soot on the trunk. It affected every example of this vehicle for 2 whole model years. Terrible, but Mitsubishi considered it to be operating normally. I had it tuned properly, and at its 5 year check its tailpipe was cleaner than my Honda Civic commuter vehicle. So I also take some issue with "modified=worse-polluting" in the first place.

stopcrazypp · Feb 16, 2016

Gizmotoy said:
Sadly, I'd conflated the act's definition of non-road with the actual use of vehicles off the road, making my post probably only make sense to myself. I should probably modify or delete it, I suppose.

There are several preliminary legal analysis in progress, but at least one completed thus far disagrees with that assessment: http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/imag...tm_campaign=LeMons+Law+Brief&utm_medium=email

It's an interesting topic. Unfortunately, no matter who is found to be right, the result seems certain to have an effect on the parts market. Like a lot of things these days, there's no way for an individual to maintain a vehicle on their own without parts access. Currently there's no way for a manufacturer to verify the customer has a track vehicle. Assessing fines for selling to customers without one, and no way to verify that's the case, seems certain to lead to manufacturers closing.

Looking at that linked analysis, the only support they provide for the Clean Air Act and EPA not covering racing vehicles is this exchange in the committee notes:

MR. NICHOLS: “I would ask the distinguished chairman if I am correct in stating that the terms “vehicle” and “vehicle engine” as used in the act do not include vehicles or vehicle engines manufactured for, modified for or utilized in organized motor racing events which, of course, are held very infrequently but which utilize all types of vehicles and vehicle engines?”
MR. STAGGERS: “In response to the gentleman from Alabama, I would say to the gentleman they would not come under the provisions of this act, because the act deals only with automobiles used on our roads in everyday use. The act would not cover the types of racing vehicles to which the gentleman referred, and present law does not cover them either.”4

I highlighted the main issue. Namely, the response did not explicitly say that automobiles originally manufactured for use on roads in everyday use and subsequently modified/utilized for competition is exempt. It only says racing vehicles is exempt, however according to the law as written, that only applies to vehicles/engines originally manufactured for this purpose (for example NASCAR, F1, etc). There is no wording in the existing law that says a car that was originally a "motor vehicle" is suddenly exempt or reclassified simply because it was later modified or utilized for competition.

Gizmotoy said:
Is that actually the case? My Tesla has an EPA sticker under the hood detailing the emissions equipment, and in California the DMV had to verify it before I could register the vehicle. Clearly there's no tailpipe emissions equipment to tamper with, but they seem to have some kind of regulation in place.

Edit: I'll note that I have a vehicle that was at one point technically illegal under both the proposed and current regulations. It ran extremely rich stock, and barely passed CA emissions at 3 years old. Black soot on the trunk. It affected every example of this vehicle for 2 whole model years. Terrible, but Mitsubishi considered it to be operating normally. I had it tuned properly, and at its 5 year check its tailpipe was cleaner than my Honda Civic commuter vehicle. So I also take some issue with "modified=worse-polluting" in the first place.

Yes technically, they still regulate it, but there is no performance related emission equipment that would need exemption in an EV. In California, you need a CARB exempt part if you modify your vehicle and still want to pass smog. This is something the auto parts industry is used to already, but doesn't apply to EVs at all. The only thing that I can think of that might still be covered is stuff like air conditioning refrigerant, but that is quite minor (and not the main part that is likely to be changed to improve EV performance).

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EPA to ban Production racing? Even for EV's?

McRat

Well-Known Member

S'toon

Knows where his towel is

McRat

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vinnie97

#WalkAway

Caligula

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McRat

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Gizmotoy

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gregincal

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Gizmotoy

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S'toon

Knows where his towel is

Gizmotoy

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stopcrazypp

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Gizmotoy

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stopcrazypp

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