Ventilated seats in Model X- self contained or piped into the HVAC system?

calisnow · Jan 29, 2016

Does anyone know which method Tesla used to implement ventilated seats in the Model X?

1 - Self contained cooling unit within the seat itself - perhaps using a peltier heat pump device like the aftermarket unit Katzkins sells

or

2 - Cool air pumped into the seat via ducting routed from the car's central a/c system

goneskiian · Jan 29, 2016

Why does it matter?

Not trying to be snarky. Genuinely curious. ;-)

calisnow · Jan 29, 2016

goneskiian said:
Why does it matter?

Not trying to be snarky. Genuinely curious. ;-)

It's okay - I'm often snarky - I can take it even if you didn't mean it.

I'm curious mainly because I have been postponing the delivery and build of my Model S for MONTHS in the hopes that ventilated seats would show up. Now I'm getting so tired of waiting I'm thinking I'll just get the car and then hope/pray that the ventilated seats are self contained and merely need power - and thus hopefully I'll be able to retrofit them eventually. If not I may just go aftermarket.

Yes I realize I could order a Model X but personally I really find it ugly - I find it so ugly I'm getting an S despite the fact that the X clearly offers much better utility than the S and has that wonderful windshield with the great view. Eventually I'll have to buy an X anyway for kids - but this time around I want one last glorious sports sedan slung low to the ground. Fortunately for me my girlfriend does not come to these forums, and thus does not know that for only $10K more than the S I'm ordering I could have the electric minivan of her dreams.

fiksegts · Jan 29, 2016

self contained....

pvogel · Jan 29, 2016

fiksegts said:
self contained....

By what evidence? Heating, yes, that's contained in the seat. But it looked to me like the seats are just another set of AC vents you can turn on or off. There isn't an AC compressor in each seat, there's one AC compressor -- one of the engineers talking through the parts on the skateboard pointed out the AC compressor and how efficient it is in terms of the cooling relative to battery energy used.

Peter+

vandacca · Jan 30, 2016

pvogel said:
By what evidence? Heating, yes, that's contained in the seat. But it looked to me like the seats are just another set of AC vents you can turn on or off. There isn't an AC compressor in each seat, there's one AC compressor -- one of the engineers talking through the parts on the skateboard pointed out the AC compressor and how efficient it is in terms of the cooling relative to battery energy used.

I may have misunderstood, but I thought there were 2 AC compressors. One for the front and one for the rear (and only if you get 6/7 seat option). On the emergency response document, it's referred to as "Rear HVAC assembly".

pvogel · Jan 30, 2016

Ah. That is possible, yes. But it's not seat only. That said, I think I saw individual fan controls for the seats, so the compressor is shared but each seat may have its own fan so each occupant can dial their own comfort eventually via the app and wifi in the car.

Saghost · Jan 30, 2016

pvogel said:
By what evidence? Heating, yes, that's contained in the seat. But it looked to me like the seats are just another set of AC vents you can turn on or off. There isn't an AC compressor in each seat, there's one AC compressor -- one of the engineers talking through the parts on the skateboard pointed out the AC compressor and how efficient it is in terms of the cooling relative to battery energy used.

Peter+

To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever built a car with A/C compressors in each seat.

However, there are three versions of ventilated seats I've seen - some are just ventilated, blowing cabin air against the occupant, some have a specific A/C duct routed to them, blowing HVAC processed air against the occupant, and some have a Peltier type thermoelectric device built in, blowing cabin air that's been cooled inside the seat against the occupant.

I believe the OP was attempting to request help in determining which of these three Tesla has adopted.

Walter

fiksegts · Jan 30, 2016

just fans in seat, they are ventilated seats, not cooled, it's not hooked up to any ducts....

pvogel said:
By what evidence? Heating, yes, that's contained in the seat. But it looked to me like the seats are just another set of AC vents you can turn on or off. There isn't an AC compressor in each seat, there's one AC compressor -- one of the engineers talking through the parts on the skateboard pointed out the AC compressor and how efficient it is in terms of the cooling relative to battery energy used.

Peter+

DrComputer · Jan 30, 2016

Most "cooled" seats use peltier coolers. These are what are used in portable ice chests that plug into the cigarette lighter. They use electricity to make metal plates cool that air is then blown over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling

vandacca · Jan 30, 2016

fiksegts said:
just fans in seat, they are ventilated seats, not cooled, it's not hooked up to any ducts....

It was my understanding that the front driver/passenger seats are heated & cooled/ventilated seats. The 2nd/3rd row may only be ventilated (with heating if you get the subzero package).

kf93 · Jan 30, 2016

I think too many times people equate ventilated with cooled, but it's not usually active cooling. We've had vented seats now in multiple Saabs and a M-B and both brands just put a fan that pulls the air into the seats and out the bottom. Pulls the cabin air, not anything cooled. I wasn't aware there were manufacturers blowing air out of the seats, that would be a way to implement true cooling, but probably a lot more complicated with moving seats trying to have a flexible duct.

pvogel · Jan 30, 2016

Saghost said:
To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever built a car with A/C compressors in each seat.

However, there are three versions of ventilated seats I've seen - some are just ventilated, blowing cabin air against the occupant, some have a specific A/C duct routed to them, blowing HVAC processed air against the occupant, and some have a Peltier type thermoelectric device built in, blowing cabin air that's been cooled inside the seat against the occupant.

I believe the OP was attempting to request help in determining which of these three Tesla has adopted.

Walter

Given the weight and relative inefficiency in various environments of thermoelectric systems, I'd be surprised if Tesla had gone that way. My expectation is there may be a fan per seat and each seat is a separate AC duct to which air can be routed.

- - - Updated - - -

kf93 said:
I think too many times people equate ventilated with cooled, but it's not usually active cooling. We've had vented seats now in multiple Saabs and a M-B and both brands just put a fan that pulls the air into the seats and out the bottom. Pulls the cabin air, not anything cooled. I wasn't aware there were manufacturers blowing air out of the seats, that would be a way to implement true cooling, but probably a lot more complicated with moving seats trying to have a flexible duct.

The premium package lists them as "ventilated cooling seats" if I recall correctly. That implies some level of active cooling, and given the recommendation to heat/cool the seats, not the cabin because that's less efficient use of power, I would be surprised if all they did was blow cabin air through the seats.

hockeythug · Jan 30, 2016

Well, when is someone going to tear open one of their X front seats and settle this?

:biggrin:

Mark Z · Jan 30, 2016

The fan only runs when in the "cool" mode (blue numbers on the touch screen control instead of red numbers). You can hear the fan run. One fan in the driver seat. One fan in the passenger seat. NO fans in the 2nd or 3rd row seats. The air does not feel "cold" or chilled. I only see a single wrapped electric cable bundle running to the seat, no A/C ducting. IMHO, I assume it is only circulating the cabin air. There are three settings for the amount of fan speed.

When heating the seat, everything is quiet.

The fans will turn off if seat heat is applied (using either the regular control or the separate heated seat controls on the touch screen for the subzero weather option).

There isn't much air flow as a paper tissue or plastic bag does not move or bulge when against the seat surface. In my Model X, the passenger seat seems to have more flow to the seat surface while the driver seat has more flow under the seat corner! Another item to bring up to the Service Center. I wouldn't have known if this thread didn't exist.

calisnow · Jan 31, 2016

pvogel said:
Given the weight and relative inefficiency in various environments of thermoelectric systems, I'd be surprised if Tesla had gone that way. My expectation is there may be a fan per seat and each seat is a separate AC duct to which air can be routed.

- - - Updated - - -

The premium package lists them as "ventilated cooling seats" if I recall correctly. That implies some level of active cooling, and given the recommendation to heat/cool the seats, not the cabin because that's less efficient use of power, I would be surprised if all they did was blow cabin air through the seats.

I'm no engineer but these peltier units from Katzkins look pretty small and light. Installation begins at 8:00 in the video:

Jeep Wrangler Interior - YouTube

gjunky · Jan 31, 2016

Mark Z said:
The fan only runs when in the "cool" mode (blue numbers on the touch screen control instead of red numbers). You can hear the fan run. One fan in the driver seat. One fan in the passenger seat. NO fans in the 2nd or 3rd row seats. The air does not feel "cold" or chilled. I only see a single wrapped electric cable bundle running to the seat, no A/C ducting. IMHO, I assume it is only circulating the cabin air. There are three settings for the amount of fan speed.

When heating the seat, everything is quiet.

The fans will turn off if seat heat is applied (using either the regular control or the separate heated seat controls on the touch screen for the subzero weather option).

There isn't much air flow as a paper tissue or plastic bag does not move or bulge when against the seat surface. In my Model X, the passenger seat seems to have more flow to the seat surface while the driver seat has more flow under the seat corner! Another item to bring up to the Service Center. I wouldn't have known if this thread didn't exist.

Thanks Mark. I know the question has come up before but did you notice any air flow coming from the seat back?

Mark Z · Jan 31, 2016

gjunky said:
Thanks Mark. I know the question has come up before but did you notice any air flow coming from the seat back?

Glad you asked. My earlier post was wrong about one fan, there are two per seat! One fan is in the seat bottom and another fan is located under the headrest. You can hear the fan motors at both locations.

The air flow is so subtle that I hardly feel any airflow at all at the highest fan speed.

goneskiian · Jan 31, 2016

calisnow said:
It's okay - I'm often snarky - I can take it even if you didn't mean it. I'm curious mainly because I have been postponing the delivery and build of my Model S for MONTHS in the hopes that ventilated seats would show up. Now I'm getting so tired of waiting I'm thinking I'll just get the car and then hope/pray that the ventilated seats are self contained and merely need power - and thus hopefully I'll be able to retrofit them eventually. If not I may just go aftermarket.

Good point. I can imagine more than few other potential S buyers are waiting for them too.

This thread has some great info! Thanks all! I had no idea how ventilated seats worked before reading.

calisnow said:
Yes I realize I could order a Model X but personally I really find it ugly - I find it so ugly I'm getting an S despite the fact that the X clearly offers much better utility than the S and has that wonderful windshield with the great view.

I have to address something you said here about the X clearly offering much better utility than the S. That topic is hotly debated. Well, OK, maybe not. It seems the S is actually more utilitarian with it's folding second row seats and ability to mount a roof rack (that doesn't need seasuckers anyway).

SMSMD · Feb 1, 2016

[QUOTE. You can hear the fan motors at both locations.[/QUOTE]

How tolerable is the motor noise?? Any Vibrations?? Good to know the flow is subtle.

Ventilated seats in Model X- self contained or piped into the HVAC system?

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