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Alignment question

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dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S
Moderator
May 17, 2009
19,147
891
Nevada
I got an alignment done after a few years and the image is below. They said it tracked straight and no abnormal wear either. Never hit a big pot hole that I know about but they weren't able to bring left rear tire into spec. Is there anything to do about this? They said they could put anymore shims I think in place and still tighten down the screws.

Roadster alignment.jpg
 
So your driver's side rear toe was out of spec as well as the driver's side rear camber. That camber was and currently still is off by -0.5 degrees vs. the passenger rear camber. The passenger front camber was off by -0.5 from the driver's front camber. Appears they put in a shim(s) on the passenger side, realigned and brought the passenger front camber back in by +0.6 so it was only off by -0.1 degrees from the driver's.

Interesting to see is that your caster is around 4.2 degrees and relatively symmetrical for both sides (off by only 0.1 degree. My 1.5 was way off and around 3.2/3.6 and I had to pull all the shims to get it around where you're at.

As for things being out of spec and such. One thing to note is that if you sat in the car or ballast your weight in the car, some of these numbers will change (such as camber but not caster). Its always a good habit to ballast the car with the normal weight and location of the rate as configured when you drive the car normally. No sense really doing it without the weight. When nobody is in the car these numbers don't do anything for you to be in spec! You could be running out of spec in some cases if you actually get in the car. Also things get out of spec from factory or right after they get built on the 1st drive. Reason being some suspension components need to be torqued down only when under normal weighted load of the car. If not they'll shift on you.

So getting back to your question about the driver's rear camber being more negative than the passenger. The only limitation I could see Tesla hitting from my own experience are the bolt lengths - too short. If that's the case you'd could put in longer hardened bolts, just make sure they're the same grade of hardness. If you don't want to do that, you could pull a shim out of the passenger rear to bring the camber closer to the driver's. But I'd like to know why its off like that. I also wouldn't do anything until I get the alignment numbers after the car has been ballast as I discussed earlier. Also check your shocks/seals and things like that, in particular on that drivers rear. A blown seal and a sag in the suspension can throw things off.
 
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If you can't get any more positive camber on the left rear without longer bolts you definitely have something wrong. The bolts are usually fully seated and stick out the backside of the spindle with the camber around -2'. You should be able to get well into positive camber before the bolt length becomes a concern. Take a look at both sides and see if you can see the bolts protrude thru the backside (wheel side) of the spindle. If you have a lot more shims on the left rear and can't see the bolt ends, then something is damaged. Maybe the tech just got lazy.
 
If you can't get any more positive camber on the left rear without longer bolts you definitely have something wrong. The bolts are usually fully seated and stick out the backside of the spindle with the camber around -2'. You should be able to get well into positive camber before the bolt length becomes a concern. Take a look at both sides and see if you can see the bolts protrude thru the backside (wheel side) of the spindle. If you have a lot more shims on the left rear and can't see the bolt ends, then something is damaged. Maybe the tech just got lazy.

I agree. Those bolts are plenty long enough. The correct camber will prevent a lot of unnecessary wear on that tire. I would insist they adjust it to the proper setting.
 
I agree. Those bolts are plenty long enough. The correct camber will prevent a lot of unnecessary wear on that tire. I would insist they adjust it to the proper setting.

I also agree things should be checked out for that this is a sign that something isn't right or the job wasn't completed as they described. Also longer bolts are weaker since there's more leverage to make them snap so that route is more of a temporary band-aid. I'd rather go more negative on the passenger side if I didn't want to mess with it.

I for sure would inspect to see what they did on that driver's rear camber area to verify what they said. Also I'd inspect your wishbone bushings, see if any are failing causing the wishbone to not sit properly which could aggravate the negative camber. Otherwise somehow the wishbone changed its orientation causing the hub to fall down / more negative camber or something hit the wheel on the outside that pushed the wishbone in and down, again possibly shifting the bushings / locked in seat it had before or possibly it bent. But you said you never hit anything nor any pot-holes and I presume you owned the Roadster since new so possibly it was set like that from the beginning on a Friday Christmas Eve evening :)

**One observation is your original toe on your driver's rear. It also was out of spec. With that it makes me feel something hit the wheel or something / multiple things shifted. I can't see both of those things getting set wrong from the start. They should of nailed the toe at least.

*Another interesting observation is that the opposite / passenger front side was wacked too, the toe was off/out of spec and the camber went more negative compared to the driver's side.
 
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Thanks. They said they couldn't get it within spec without damaging it or something. I've had it since new. I might show it to a different service center.

I'd call to ask to elaborate in "technical detail" what they mean. Also if you have a knowledgeable TMC member close by you can both jack up the Roadster to verify that area. I'd volunteer but you're still some miles away unless I want to do a fun roadtrip.

I don't know if you're going to get any further by going to another service center other than wasting your time. This is one of the reasons why I ended up learning and doing the majority of servicing my cars myself. Its you driving the car not them. Even though they're trained they're still people who make mistakes.

Also this shows that getting an alignment done can show and tell you more about how your wheels contact the pavement that you already didn't know. Its a true vital sign that you need with any car you put your life on the line with. Remember all these settings / specs tells you how your car will handle in a turn as well as how well it'll brake.
 
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Hi everyone,

Happy New Year! I'm finally getting past the end of year work and holiday stuff. I promise to post pictures this weekend.

It's my turn to inquire about alignment. I was finally able to flip the wheels around and have the alignment checked. The wheel flip required that I remount the front tires (they are directional). Back to the alignment, they made quite a few adjustments but could not complete the job as they needed shims that they could not locate locally. (This was done on the Big Island, at Lex Brodie's.) From past discussions here, it looks like Lotus Elise shims will work. I found a site that sells them but I'd like to first find out if you have suggestions. Here's the site: Lotus Parts Online.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions about the shims and feedback on the alignment. I've attached the alignment report.

Thanks in advance.
Noel
 

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You definitely need shims on the right rear. I would order 4 so you have a couple extra. It will probably take two.

But you need to shift some of the alignment washers on the front to even out the caster. Depending on what is in your car now would determine what side to adjust on the front. You can't add or remove the front washers, you just change their location on each side of the upper control arm mounts (where it bolts to the frame). That shifts the upper ball joint forward or back to change the caster.

Neither one of those jobs is easy, so you they will probably want to charge more. The front is the worst, which is probably why they didn't adjust it. The maximum difference side to side for the front is .2 degrees. You are at .5 degrees.
 
You definitely need shims on the right rear. I would order 4 so you have a couple extra. It will probably take two.

But you need to shift some of the alignment washers on the front to even out the caster. Depending on what is in your car now would determine what side to adjust on the front. You can't add or remove the front washers, you just change their location on each side of the upper control arm mounts (where it bolts to the frame). That shifts the upper ball joint forward or back to change the caster.

Neither one of those jobs is easy, so you they will probably want to charge more. The front is the worst, which is probably why they didn't adjust it. The maximum difference side to side for the front is .2 degrees. You are at .5 degrees.

Thank you for the guidance. I'll bring this information to them. On the shims, do those in the link above work? They are for the 2004-2015 Elise, 1mm in thickness.

Thanks again for the help.
Noel