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Thread: CA AB 475 Allow ticketing of vehicles not connected to chargers

  1. #21
    '08 #383 SByer's Avatar
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    I didn't get past the first sentence before thinking 'yup, that's why I stopped subscribing'. Gack, morons.

  2. #22
    mod squad TEG's Avatar
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  3. #23
    TSLA will win Norbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEG View Post
    While I find myself agreeing, in general, it seems there are two points the text and the comments are not addressing (yet):

    - The law as proposed appears to intentionally make the point that the parking spot is reserved for charging, rather than for EVs. Just an EV decal wouldn't address this (even if it is a better solution overall), it wouldn't rule out that EVs might take advantage of the reserved parking without actually needing a charge. I think that point would deserve at least discussion (which might have happened elsewhere).

    - not sure if this is a valid point in practice, but especially at airports, one might want the EV to remain connected to keep the battery from depleting over time, resulting in less than a full charge on return, and in order to allow pre-heating or pre-cooling the car on return, using the grid instead of the battery. While this could be addressed by not posting a permission to disconnect, these might be additional reasons to not share, aside from a discomfort with strangers operating one's charging port. This might lead to a thinking that emphasizes support for more chargers instead of sharing, but we seem to be far from having that many chargers (especially at LAX).
    Buying an EV is one thing, being able to drive it beyond city limits another...

  4. #24
    Dreaming no more :-( Nik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norbert View Post
    While I find myself agreeing, in general, it seems there are two points the text and the comments are not addressing (yet):

    - The law as proposed appears to intentionally make the point that the parking spot is reserved for charging, rather than for EVs. Just an EV decal wouldn't address this (even if it is a better solution overall), it wouldn't rule out that EVs might take advantage of the reserved parking without actually needing a charge. I think that point would deserve at least discussion (which might have happened elsewhere).
    Reserved parking for EVs and Reserved for parking whilst charging are pretty much indistinguishable, for any vehicle that can set it's own charge rate. If you're EV doesn't 'need' a charge, simply hook it up and dial the max charge rate down to the minimum the vehicle will accept. Result is that the car is always 'charging'.

    It's pretty tough to state that EVs must be disconnected once charged, since this limits what the driver can do at the location whilst parked. Do I have to leave my restaurant to move the car? Pop out in the middle of a film? A job interview?

  5. #25
    mod squad TEG's Avatar
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    Not all EVs can adjust their charge rate.

    Not all EVs are compatible with a particular plug at a given charging spot.
    We ought to do something that discourages, for instance, a Roadster without a J1772 adapter from parking all day at a J1772 station. Or a Leaf from parking all day in front of a Tesla EVSE.
    Or a Volt in front of a CHAdeMO L3. I am for a regulation that says charge spots are reserved for compatible vehicles that can actually plug into the EVSE/or charger there. Working out what should happen when they are done charging is a little trickier.

  6. #26
    mod squad bonnie's Avatar
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    We've already established a best practice for what to do when your car is done charging & someone else might want it - most of us leave a courtesy note. (I just finished up printing some new notes for my upcoming roadtrip saying basically, 'Happy to share the plug - call me if you need it before I return - [phone number]).

    I don't see a problem with requiring EV drivers to leave contact information or time of return with their potentially non-charging car. Either move it when done charging OR leave a way to be contacted so another EV can use the plug as needed. If there are privacy concerns, set up a Skype account and forward to your phone. Or an email address just for this purpose.

  7. #27
    TSLA will win Norbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Reserved parking for EVs and Reserved for parking whilst charging are pretty much indistinguishable, for any vehicle that can set it's own charge rate. If you're EV doesn't 'need' a charge, simply hook it up and dial the max charge rate down to the minimum the vehicle will accept. Result is that the car is always 'charging'.

    It's pretty tough to state that EVs must be disconnected once charged, since this limits what the driver can do at the location whilst parked. Do I have to leave my restaurant to move the car? Pop out in the middle of a film? A job interview?
    Well, the current law doesn't require 'charging', it requires 'connectedness', expressing that you should go there only if you want to charge, but not implying that you have to leave when you are done. That, I think, is a good intention (especially in that it states that you should use the space only if you actually want to charge, not just because you can, with an EV), except there is a problem in proving it afterwards.

    And a problem may be: lots of people may not be comfortable with others operating their charging port, but they may still want to use the EV space for charging, and still keep parking there without having to return as soon as they are done. So when others want to share plugs (as long as there aren't enough for everyone), those two camps will battle each other with peer pressure etc for what is the "better" way. The "old" EV community has developed this sharing protocol on the basis that they are friends, and the number of chargers limited, but will it scale to the larger population?
    Last edited by Norbert; 2011-09-02 at 09:50 AM.
    Buying an EV is one thing, being able to drive it beyond city limits another...

  8. #28
    mod squad TEG's Avatar
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    Perhaps they should build EVs with a charge port that can lock the plug while charging then release it when done.
    The Coulomb Chargpoints can lock the plug to the EVSE until you show authorization (RFID card) to use it.
    The handle can also be manually locked using a small luggage type padlock on the release switch of the J plug.
    Perhaps a ChargePoint type electric lock could be part of the charge port on future EVs, and it locks the plug to the socket while charging is in session then releases it when done. That way no one could unplug you until the charging session was done. If the plug is unlocked then others would be free to move the cable to a neighboring spot. Reminds me of how some washing machines lock the lid while they are in use. Just an idea.

  9. #29
    TSLA will win Norbert's Avatar
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    I think the risk of an EV/PHEV getting towed for the wrong reasons is far too big, and locking etc is difficult. The sticker should solve this problem, by saying: a plugin car needs to have a sticker to park there, and if it has a sticker, it will never get towed. Nevertheless drivers are asked (or obligated without enforcement) to park there only if they want to charge their cellphone.
    Buying an EV is one thing, being able to drive it beyond city limits another...

  10. #30
    Senior Member markwj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norbert View Post
    I think the risk of an EV/PHEV getting towed for the wrong reasons is far too big, and locking etc is difficult. The sticker should solve this problem, by saying: a plugin car needs to have a sticker to park there, and if it has a sticker, it will never get towed. Nevertheless drivers are asked (or obligated without enforcement) to park there only if they want to charge their cellphone.
    Or they just ignore it and randomly enforce on complaint (which is what happens in similar cases here).

    Sticker would be fine for me (if I lived in the USA). It seems to work reasonably well for reserved handicapped parking.
    PLEASE NOTE:
    These musings are the copyrighted intellectual property of the author, and are intended as part of a conversation among the Tesla Motors Clubs membership.
    My words may not be quoted by any third party outside the Tesla Motors Clubs forums, without my express consent.

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