CA AB 475 Allow ticketing of vehicles not connected to chargers

[GSP]

So you can park an EV in the space without it charging?

Sounds that way. That also means they can't tow your EV just because someone unplugged it.

GSP

[TEG]

Did the Volt owner get ticketed or towed after you removed the EVSE cable to charge your car?

It seems that under California law, you have done nothing wrong (he was done charging after all), but he is now liable due to your action. Doesn't seem like a valid law to me.
GSP

No, for that regulation to be in play there has to be specific signage. This was in a semi-private parking lot with just a simple "EV only" sign so I don't think there was any chance of a tow situation. I figured the plug was up for grabs since the chargepoint said it wasn't charging, and was waiting for someone to activate it with a card. After that experience, I won't ever unplug a Volt as I can't know if the plug alarm is active or not... Sharing plugs as needed between spaces seems like it might be a doomed concept because of things like unplug alarms (even while the vehicle is not charging!)

[Norbert]

Drum-roll please......

Florida House Bill relating to energy, H.B. 7117, was officially adopted into law on April 16th but at present, a simple online summary has yet to be established. Some portions relate to EV's and parking so..... effective July 1, 2012:

"It is unlawful for a person to stop, stand, or park a vehicle that is not capable of using an electric recharging station within any parking space specifically designated for charging a vehicle. If a law enforcement officer finds a motor vehicle in violation of this subsection, the officer or specialist shall charge the operator or other person in charge of the vehicle in violation with a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as provided in s. 316.008(4) or s. 318.18."

Kudos to Larry for following up and finding this......

Great, the wording seems really good.

Not only because of the problems with unplugging, but also since once we have plenty of chargers, people won't want to return and move the car the very second charging has finished. It allows plugging in, and going somewhere for 2 hours (movie), even if topping-off only takes 1 hour, for example.

[GSP]

No, for that regulation to be in play there has to be specific signage. .......... I won't ever unplug a Volt as I can't know if the plug alarm is active or not...

Thanks TEG, I did not know the signage was required. May come in handy if I rent an EV on my next visit to the Golden State.

I can't disable the alarm on my 2011 Volt, but if I trade for a newer one, I will add "cord alarm disabled" to my charging protocol card that I leave on the dashboard. Since most CA Volts will be 2012 HOV models, you may want to check for a similar notes from their owners.

GSP

[Larry Chanin]

Great, the wording seems really good.

Not only because of the problems with unplugging, but also since once we have plenty of chargers, people won't want to return and move the car the very second charging has finished. It allows plugging in, and going somewhere for 2 hours (movie), even if topping-off only takes 1 hour, for example.

Hi Norbert,

Yes, in my opinion Florida is not the first state one thinks of when discussing sensible legislation.

However, this wording looks good to me. In the absence of abundant charger infrastructure it should allow us to leave notes on our cars permitting other EV owners to unplug us if we are done charging.

I'm not keen on free charging. Now, with limited numbers of EVs it probably doesn't matter, but later it may be more difficult to find an available charging station. In addition to notes, I think the setting of intelligent fees would assist in getting folks to move on after charging, but if they wish to pay for the convenience of parking longer at least they won't get ticketed or towed.

Larry

[Norbert]

I'm not keen on free charging. Now, with limited numbers of EVs it probably doesn't matter, but later it may be more difficult to find an available charging station. In addition to notes, I think the setting of intelligent fees would assist in getting folks to move on after charging, but if they wish to pay for the convenience of parking longer at least they won't get ticketed or towed.

I have a different expectation of what will happen when the number of EVs increases. Although charging providers seem to have a difficult time developing well-working networks (thinking of the reports from the UK), the cost of chargers will go down a lot, their technology become very reliable, the associated paperwork and processes will be streamlined, and a good way to finance them will be found, as the cost (on a national level) is small compared to the expenses we have (on a national level) for oil/gasoline. So as soon as the numbers of EVs increases, strongly encouraging these processes, I'm confident there will be, in general, a good number of chargers relative to the number o f EVs.

[Larry Chanin]

I have a different expectation of what will happen when the number of EVs increases. Although charging providers seem to have a difficult time developing well-working networks (thinking of the reports from the UK), the cost of chargers will go down a lot, their technology become very reliable, the associated paperwork and processes will be streamlined, and a good way to finance them will be found, as the cost (on a national level) is small compared to the expenses we have (on a national level) for oil/gasoline. So as soon as the numbers of EVs increases, strongly encouraging these processes, I'm confident there will be, in general, a good number of chargers relative to the number o f EVs.

Hi Nobert,

Do your remarks also pertain to DC fast chargers?

Thanks.

Larry

[Norbert]

Do your remarks also pertain to DC fast chargers?

For DC chargers, this depends on whether it will be possible to have multiple outlets per DC charger, which automatically switch the charger from one outlet to another, when the car on the first outlet is finished charging.

[Larry Chanin]

I'm not keen on free charging. Now, with limited numbers of EVs it probably doesn't matter, but later it may be more difficult to find an available charging station. In addition to notes, I think the setting of intelligent fees would assist in getting folks to move on after charging, but if they wish to pay for the convenience of parking longer at least they won't get ticketed or towed.

I have a different expectation of what will happen when the number of EVs increases. Although charging providers seem to have a difficult time developing well-working networks (thinking of the reports from the UK), the cost of chargers will go down a lot, their technology become very reliable, the associated paperwork and processes will be streamlined, and a good way to finance them will be found, as the cost (on a national level) is small compared to the expenses we have (on a national level) for oil/gasoline. So as soon as the numbers of EVs increases, strongly encouraging these processes, I'm confident there will be, in general, a good number of chargers relative to the number o f EVs.

For DC chargers, this depends on whether it will be possible to have multiple outlets per DC charger, which automatically switch the charger from one outlet to another, when the car on the first outlet is finished charging.

Hi Norbert,

The reason I asked about DC fast chargers was that the expansion of networks of DC fast chargers are much more challenging and in general probably shouldn't be free. They are much more expensive and the issue of significant electrical demand charges are more difficult to ignore. Further, we don't want folks lingering at a DC fast charger simply because they find its a convenient parking space. The need for intelligent charging fees for DC fast chargers is more compelling and hopefully would move people along even if state regulations don't require them to move when done charging.

Larry

[Norbert]

The reason I asked about DC fast chargers was that the expansion of networks of DC fast chargers are much more challenging and in general probably shouldn't be free. They are much more expensive and the issue of significant electrical demand charges are more difficult to ignore. Further, we don't want folks lingering at a DC fast charger simply because they find its a convenient parking space. The need for intelligent charging fees for DC fast chargers is more compelling and hopefully would move people along even if state regulations don't require them to move when done charging.

Well, this is exactly the problem solved by having multiple outlets per DC charger. With that, there is no need, in general, to run to the car when charging is finished, as the charger will automatically switch to charging the next car. The problem with too many regulations, especially at this early stage, is that there are often technical solutions to problems that seem to be human superficially. That's why I like the one quoted above: It is very simple and gets the primary issue right (as far as I can tell), without trying to impose secondary restrictions which would depend on temporal circumstances which have other possible solutions.