Questions for Minnesotans

hybridbear · Jan 18, 2016

I posted a general introduction thread in the general section, but I haven't gotten replies to some of my questions that are more specific to life with a Model S in Minnesota. Thus, I'm starting a thread here to ask some of the questions that I have not been able to find an answer to.

The first question concerns our MN annual registration costs. We currently are paying about $400 each annually for our Focus Electric & Fusion Energi (based on MSRP back in 2013 of $40k plus). When I try to put a Model S VIN into the MN DVS web calculator I get an error. It would be useful to know your Model S year, trim level (or whatever the correct term is to differentiate 70D vs 85 vs 85D vs P85 etc) & how much the state is gouging you for... I'm hoping one Model S wouldn't cost us more than $800 per year at the beginning. I tried asking this when I did a test drive this past Saturday and the store employees refused to tell me.

The biggest potential road block to getting a Model S is the lack of Superchargers going NW along I-94. My wife is from Winnipeg, thus we make multiple trips to Winnipeg each year. Right now it would not be possible to make that drive via Superchargers & would be extremely difficult to make it at all. I hope that we'll see major progress this summer along that corridor.

This past Saturday I decided to go to the Eden Prairie store to test drive a Model S. It was not a good experience, which I detailed here. Do any of the local owners have suggestions of who at the local store is better to work with? I know that there are a couple Tesla employees with recommendations on the EV Sales Savvy website. How would I go about working with a different Product Specialist without offending the one that I had who wasn't very good?

Another concern based on stories I've read on the forum & in the media is service wait time. It seems that some service centers are really backed up. The Model S would be our only car, thus getting a loaner would be critical. What has been your experience with the Eden Prairie Service Center? How long is the wait to get an appointment? How do they do at having Model S loaners available?

Finally, I'll be at our next MNPEVOC meeting on Thursday. Hopefully I'll see some of you there & will be able to learn more about the Model S.

Thanks!!

JeffS · Jan 18, 2016

1. Call the DMV. Best answer you will get is the one you finally just call and get yourself.

2. SCs on I94...yep. Not much there. Tesla opted for the more southern. I90. It is what it is. But you knew that already.

3. Be blunt.

4. Probably not the biggest concern in Eden Prairie MN. Best thing to do is call for an appt. Just make a call and ask.

hybridbear · Jan 18, 2016

JeffS said:
1. Call the DMV. Best answer you will get is the one you finally just call and get yourself.

I attempted to do this when we got our Focus Electric. We were taking over a lease from out of state & thus I had a lot of questions. The employees I reached by e-mail were not at all knowledgeable or helpful. They purposefully do not allow you to contact them by phone.

JeffS said:
2. SCs on I94...yep. Not much there. Tesla opted for the more southern. I90. It is what it is. But you knew that already.

I'm not quite sure what the point of your reply is... The Product Specialist I spoke to at the store this past weekend said he expected half of the Superchargers shown on the map for that corridor to get built this year, enough to make it possible to make the trip. He also said he is 100% sure that the Minneapolis Supercharger will open during 2016.

JeffS · Jan 18, 2016

hybridbear said:
I attempted to do this when we got our Focus Electric. We were taking over a lease from out of state & thus I had a lot of questions. The employees I reached by e-mail were not at all knowledgeable or helpful. They purposefully do not allow you to contact them by phone.

I'm not quite sure what the point of your reply is... The Product Specialist I spoke to at the store this past weekend said he expected half of the Superchargers shown on the map for that corridor to get built this year, enough to make it possible to make the trip. He also said he is 100% sure that the Minneapolis Supercharger will open during 2016.

Point was...
1. There is a way to find out the reg fee in your home state. You just have to find the way.
2. Wasn't posed as a question, I was commiserating with you.

Evbwcaer · Jan 18, 2016

-$700 for my 2014 S85 (for the 2015 tabs, not the originals), only options are cold weather and rear seats. If you get a CPO, you will pay less than I did, not sure if that means your tabs would cost less.

-I did not read your post about experience at EP, buy Libby was great for me and another person I know.

-I have had nothing but great service experiences there, although they have been limited. I have never needed a loaner and they did get me in on very short notice.

-You could drive from Minneapolis to Duluth (Supercharge), then to International Falls, spend the night, the drive to Winnipeg. Kind of round about, but not that much, and the Supercharger map shows the most direct route covered in 2016, I'd bet on 2017 realistically. I drove all the way home from Ely to Minneapolis on one charge, set the cruise at 60, it was average 30f degrees out, and I had 17 miles to spare. Point being, you can make Winnipeg with a little planning.

glenhurst · Jan 18, 2016

I'll try to answer as many questions as you've asked, although I've kinda lost track of them all.

My registration is ~$600 or $800; I forget the exact amount. So is my insurance, which I get through Progressive (my regular insurance company (not the agent) won't insure the car). My wife is 10" shorter than I am, so the seat settings in our profiles are quite different. We have an extra profile called "In & Out" that puts the seat all the way back, which my wife chooses when she's going to get out of the car because it's easier for her (she set it up); it also makes it easier for me to get in. That the profiles aren't selected automatically doesn't bother me (I hadn't even thought about it until I read your posts, so it's just not significant to me). What's nice is that Tesla could add auto selecting the profile at some point and it will just appear in one of the updates some day.

Sorry to hear about your experience at the showroom. My dealings with the staff have all been very positive. I just had my car in for its 25k mile checkup. Telsa brought a loaner to me at my office as I requested and then took mine off to the shop. I said I would pick up my car/drop the loaner off at the service center since I was not going to be at my office in the afternoon. When I mentioned this, the service person said, "Are you sure? We can deliver your car anywhere you want in town." I said yes because I wasn't going to be staying in one place and wasn't sure where I'd be or for how long by the time they finished. So, at the end of the day, I dropped the loaner off and picked up mine. Easy as could be.

I was originally going to wait for the Model 3. But after seeing the car, doing a short test drive, and giving it some thought, I realized that Tesla really is taking the right approach to getting rid of gasoline cars and all the problems they create. ICE cars have gotten so complex in trying to reduce emissions and squeeze out every last bit of mileage--and hybrids make this even more complicated--and still companies like Volkswagen have to resort to cheating to come up with better numbers. We've just reached the end of the line of what can be done with ICE cars. I decided I didn't want to put any more money into an ICE car. A friend of mine mentioned that his wife wanted a Tesla and figured she'd just delay retiring for a year to pay for it; retirement is a ways off for me yet, but that seemed like a good way to "borrow" the money from myself, so to speak, to pay for it.

And in the year-and-a-half I've had the car, I've never regretted getting it.

As others have pointed out, Tesla's supercharger map for 2016 shows SCs along I-94 and I-29 all the way up to Winnipeg. While it's possible they'll fall short of that--they didn't get the SC for the Twin Cities built in 2015 as they had originally forecast--if they do, it would only be delayed to 2017. Part of the reason I got the car was I *wanted* to be a part of the process when it was still kinda early in the transition to EVs. For me, part of the fun is seeing new routes open up, new superchargers coming online. On the other hand, there really is no "frontier" aspect to owning the Tesla. My son & I drove across the US up to Quebec City and then came back on the Canadian side for our vacation this past summer, and it really was all too easy. There was no range anxiety or any of the problems people think they're going to have. And it was a lot of fun.

I still have two gasoline cars. Our Camry will go to my son when he graduates from college in a few years. Our Sienna minivan is my truck for hauling stuff. After we'd had the Model S for six months or so, my wife said she wanted her own Tesla. My plan is to dump the van and replace it with a Model 3 when it comes out. I don't plan to ever buy an ICE car again.

I, too, will be at the MN EV meeting Thursday night. We can talk more then if you'd like.

hybridbear · Jan 19, 2016

Evbwcaer said:
-$700 for my 2014 S85 (for the 2015 tabs, not the originals), only options are cold weather and rear seats. If you get a CPO, you will pay less than I did, not sure if that means your tabs would cost less.

-I did not read your post about experience at EP, buy Libby was great for me and another person I know.

-I have had nothing but great service experiences there, although they have been limited. I have never needed a loaner and they did get me in on very short notice.

-You could drive from Minneapolis to Duluth (Supercharge), then to International Falls, spend the night, the drive to Winnipeg. Kind of round about, but not that much, and the Supercharger map shows the most direct route covered in 2016, I'd bet on 2017 realistically. I drove all the way home from Ely to Minneapolis on one charge, set the cruise at 60, it was average 30f degrees out, and I had 17 miles to spare. Point being, you can make Winnipeg with a little planning.

Thanks for the info. I was estimating around $700-800 for tabs when the car is a year old (like your example). MN bases the yearly cost on the "base value" for your car. For each of our cars this has been roughly the MSRP for our trim level. Options added on to your trim level don't increase your base value. I'm guessing that for the state the Model S will be separated by 70, 70D, 85, 85D, P85D, etc. This info can be determined from the VIN, right? The state calculates the base value based on the VIN characters.

glenhurst said:
I'll try to answer as many questions as you've asked, although I've kinda lost track of them all. My registration is ~$600 or $800; I forget the exact amount. So is my insurance, which I get through Progressive (my regular insurance company (not the agent) won't insure the car). My wife is 10" shorter than I am, so the seat settings in our profiles are quite different. We have an extra profile called "In & Out" that puts the seat all the way back, which my wife chooses when she's going to get out of the car because it's easier for her (she set it up); it also makes it easier for me to get in. That the profiles aren't selected automatically doesn't bother me (I hadn't even thought about it until I read your posts, so it's just not significant to me). What's nice is that Tesla could add auto selecting the profile at some point and it will just appear in one of the updates some day.

Sorry to hear about your experience at the showroom. My dealings with the staff have all been very positive. I just had my car in for its 25k mile checkup. Telsa brought a loaner to me at my office as I requested and then took mine off to the shop. I said I would pick up my car/drop the loaner off at the service center since I was not going to be at my office in the afternoon. When I mentioned this, the service person said, "Are you sure? We can deliver your car anywhere you want in town." I said yes because I wasn't going to be staying in one place and wasn't sure where I'd be or for how long by the time they finished. So, at the end of the day, I dropped the loaner off and picked up mine. Easy as could be.

I was originally going to wait for the Model 3. But after seeing the car, doing a short test drive, and giving it some thought, I realized that Tesla really is taking the right approach to getting rid of gasoline cars and all the problems they create. ICE cars have gotten so complex in trying to reduce emissions and squeeze out every last bit of mileage--and hybrids make this even more complicated--and still companies like Volkswagen have to resort to cheating to come up with better numbers. We've just reached the end of the line of what can be done with ICE cars. I decided I didn't want to put any more money into an ICE car. A friend of mine mentioned that his wife wanted a Tesla and figured she'd just delay retiring for a year to pay for it; retirement is a ways off for me yet, but that seemed like a good way to "borrow" the money from myself, so to speak, to pay for it.

And in the year-and-a-half I've had the car, I've never regretted getting it.

As others have pointed out, Tesla's supercharger map for 2016 shows SCs along I-94 and I-29 all the way up to Winnipeg. While it's possible they'll fall short of that--they didn't get the SC for the Twin Cities built in 2015 as they had originally forecast--if they do, it would only be delayed to 2017. Part of the reason I got the car was I *wanted* to be a part of the process when it was still kinda early in the transition to EVs. For me, part of the fun is seeing new routes open up, new superchargers coming online. On the other hand, there really is no "frontier" aspect to owning the Tesla. My son & I drove across the US up to Quebec City and then came back on the Canadian side for our vacation this past summer, and it really was all too easy. There was no range anxiety or any of the problems people think they're going to have. And it was a lot of fun.

I still have two gasoline cars. Our Camry will go to my son when he graduates from college in a few years. Our Sienna minivan is my truck for hauling stuff. After we'd had the Model S for six months or so, my wife said she wanted her own Tesla. My plan is to dump the van and replace it with a Model 3 when it comes out. I don't plan to ever buy an ICE car again.

I, too, will be at the MN EV meeting Thursday night. We can talk more then if you'd like.

Thanks for the great replies. We would go back to having just 1 car if we get a Model S. We've had only 1 car before & it's doable because I walk to the office & my wife only works 4 miles from home so she isn't commuting far either. I'm hoping to see some progress (such as permitting or early stages of construction) this year to show that the Winnipeg corridor will be doable by 1/1/17. The map shows more Superchargers than would really be necessary. I hope they can get half of them done, that would make the trip possible with favorable conditions. Based on the early conversations I've had with my wife about the idea of getting a Model S, this will be key for her to support the idea. She understands & supports driving electric, but sometimes she gets frustrated by the adjustments we make to avoid using gas in our Fusion Energi or to make a trip possible in the Focus Electric. She also grew up driving pick up trucks & often wishes she could still drive a pick up.

Hope to see you tomorrow night!

Thanks both of you for the replies!

Vexar · Jan 21, 2016

Hi Hybridbear. I read your test drive experience; it seems reflective of the grouchy mood Minnesotans get in at the peak of Winter, so take it with a bit of road salt. I know who at the service center couldn't have said those bits about the suspension ride and the size of the fob, but I don't know who might have said it; as I recall, they are using Bluetooth, so it's a unique pairing; they might add that capability in the future. Please appreciate that Minneapolis has exploded with business and it is entirely likely you just got someone new for your test drive. Yes, they will push towards the newer vehicles, but the argument for a D in Minnesota is rather sound with our Winters. I don't have a D, and I do just fine. Take it up with Libby or Todd, they will only improve if they get the feedback. I got the selling on getting auto-pilot recently, but where I left it was "they can take my steering wheel when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers."

In Minnesota, the taxes are based on the base price (or used purchase price) of the vehicle. So, if you bought a loaded 85 when the 40 was sold, you had the best tax situation! For annual taxes on a CPO, plan for 1-1.5% of the purchase price as the tab fees.

I won't be at the MN PVEOC meeting tonight (I always have plans Thursday nights), but hopefully a few Tesla owners will show up.
As for the drive to Canada, I know that Sun Country Highway has that nation plastered with high-power J-1772 chargers (way better than the usual 6kw chargers we see in town, most are at 80 Amps). A longer route through Duluth then Thunder Bay is possible, today. My guess is you'd prefer something in Fargo. My only advice is to take your drives to Winnipeg a little slower for the first year, and enjoy a special night in colorful Duluth! I drove to Chicago and back with only the Rockford Supercharger, so don't feel like that's your only option. I also made it to Fargo before the Superchargers existed outside of California. The concept is that you should enjoy the drive, and I think a route through Duluth would be more scenic.

Centinela · Jan 21, 2016

Have you looked into the Facebook group for Minnesota Tesla owners? It was exceptionally helpful with all the questions we had before we bought our Model S. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Minnesota.Tesla/

hybridbear · Jan 23, 2016

Vexar said:
In Minnesota, the taxes are based on the base price (or used purchase price) of the vehicle. So, if you bought a loaded 85 when the 40 was sold, you had the best tax situation! For annual taxes on a CPO, plan for 1-1.5% of the purchase price as the tab fees.

And back when the 40 was available the state used that MSRP for the base value? That's an incredible deal!! On our Fusion the state breaks it down completely by trim level. Thus, by buying an Energi Titanium we are paying tab fees based on the MSRP of the base Energi Titanium trim level, the highest possible trim level by combining the Energi powertrain with the Titanium level features. The Fusion Energi Titanium had an MSRP in 2013 of about $41k. Now the same car would have an MSRP of around $35k. Our 2013 Focus Electric had an MSRP of about $40k. Now the Focus Electric MSRP is $29,995... Thus we're paying much higher annual registration fees to the state of MN than owners of the 2014 version of the same cars.

It's been awhile since I've bought a used car, but I thought the state still used the same base value number for your registration taxes when buying a used car.

Centinela said:
Have you looked into the Facebook group for Minnesota Tesla owners? It was exceptionally helpful with all the questions we had before we bought our Model S. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Minnesota.Tesla/

I don't use Facebook, but I've considered signing up for an account just to access resources like this. One of these days I will get around to it... Thanks for the reminder of the MN Tesla Group as a potential resource.

Evbwcaer · Jan 23, 2016

Hybridbear, not sure if you have that right. Because the fee goes down over time, I assume in correlation with depreciation/Bluebook, something like that.
Your FFE essentially depreciated $10k the the day Ford lowered the price of newer versions, right?

glenhurst · Jan 23, 2016

hybridbear said:
I don't use Facebook, but I've considered signing up for an account just to access resources like this. One of these days I will get around to it... Thanks for the reminder of the MN Tesla Group as a potential resource.

We also get together monthly for a happy hour/supper on the first Tuesday of the month. Lately, we've been convening at Joe Senser's in Roseville. All are welcome.

hybridbear · Jan 23, 2016

Evbwcaer said:
Hybridbear, not sure if you have that right. Because the fee goes down over time, I assume in correlation with depreciation/Bluebook, something like that.
Your FFE essentially depreciated $10k the the day Ford lowered the price of newer versions, right?

Good Question: How Does MN Decide Car Tabs Fees? WCCO | CBS Minnesota
This Good Question from WCCO explains it. I guess you could say that our Focus Electric depreciated that much, but it's a lease so it's not a big deal to us. The residual value on our lease is ridiculously high. If it was reasonable we might consider buying the car out, but when it's over $17k it doesn't make sense. Ford will have to take a loss when they sell it at auction. Some other lessees have tried to get Ford to negotiate the residual, like Nissan is doing for Leaf lessees, but so far Ford Credit has refused to budge. I'd guess that there are so few Focus Electrics out there that they prefer just to take the loss on their books when they sell the car at auction instead of renegotiating the residual value with current lessees.

glenhurst said:
We also get together monthly for a happy hour/supper on the first Tuesday of the month. Lately, we've been convening at Joe Senser's in Roseville. All are welcome.

Thank you. I will keep that in mind.

ElectricTundra · Jan 23, 2016

OP, all of my experience with EP has been great. Libby, Todd, and the rest have been wonderful. The one time I've been in for service I was given a loaner. Quite happy with EP so far.

Centinela said:
Have you looked into the Facebook group for Minnesota Tesla owners? It was exceptionally helpful with all the questions we had before we bought our Model S. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Minnesota.Tesla/

Is the FB page still alive? When I've tried to go there the past few months I get: The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.

Vexar · Jan 25, 2016

ElectricTundra said:
OP, all of my experience with EP has been great. Libby, Todd, and the rest have been wonderful. The one time I've been in for service I was given a loaner. Quite happy with EP so far.

Is the FB page still alive? When I've tried to go there the past few months I get: The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.

Yes, just checked it. Verify the address appears as above (not just the name of the link).

hybridbear · Jan 25, 2016

I'm curious what others have found for service at the EP Service Center. So far the few that have posted have all indicated a minimal wait time for appointments. Has anyone had to wait a long time or been provided an ICE loaner instead of a Model S loaner?

I'm also curious about if anyone locally has dealt with their Model S being in an accident & having to get it repaired. Some of the threads about the horrific delays for repairs cause me pause. I've been rear-ended while stopped at a red light 5 times in 11 years of driving. I must have a target on my back or something... Our Focus Electric got rear-ended twice within a 5 week period when we first got it. Someone posted in the Intro thread I had created in the main forum that the only local repair shop is LaMettry's, but I didn't hear back from that poster when I asked how they could find what shops are Tesla certified and if it is just one LaMettry's or all of their locations. Does anyone know?

Thank you!! One of these days I will create a Facebook account & check out the MN Tesla Facebook page...

AMN · Jan 31, 2016

Tabs ran around $1,600 for our X Sig. Ugh!

EP Service Center is great. Always pleasant and professional. People can have bad days, so give them another shot.

Tamar · Jan 31, 2016

I just had service done, was able to schedule in less than a week, and car was picked up and dropped off at my husband's office. They left him a shiny white Model S (don't know the details) but he never even drove it since they were back with our car before the end of the day.

If you're looking for excuses not to buy, I'm sure you'll find a few, but the team at the EP store/service center is not going to be where you'll find that excuse. I can't imagine getting better service anywhere.

Vexar · Feb 1, 2016

AMN said:
Tabs ran around $1,600 for our X Sig. Ugh!

EP Service Center is great. Always pleasant and professional. People can have bad days, so give them another shot.

That's brutal. Hope to see it tomorrow at the club meeting.

hybridbear · Feb 1, 2016

AMN said:
Tabs ran around $1,600 for our X Sig. Ugh!

EP Service Center is great. Always pleasant and professional. People can have bad days, so give them another shot.

Thanks. I will go later in the spring for another test drive, hopefully for a multi-day drive so that my wife & I can have time to get comfortable with the car.

Did you get any details about how they got to $1600? Did you get your plates from a Hennepin County service center or did the EP store take care of everything? Assuming you went during the month of January to get your tabs & your Model S is a 2016 model, the base values chart only goes up to $99,999 vehicles and shows $1259 as the registration tax for that bracket.
(click on the image to make it larger)

th_Base%20Value%20capture_zpsyucenqaa.jpg

Here is the link to download the tables from the state.

Questions for Minnesotans

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