Any performance difference between 85D and P85D in standard sport mode?

tfboy · Jan 11, 2016

Coming back from a test drive, I had the option of testing several cars, but in the end, only took out a P85D (non ludicrous). I wanted to compare the feeling in performance of the 85D (non P) and the P85D.
The Tesla rep at the time said that if you don't put the P85D in insane mode, then the performance is pretty much the same as a standard 85D.

Of course, I tested both the P85D in standard (sport) mode and insane mode and whilst you can feel a difference, I'm trying to decide whether it's worth if for me to pay the large premium to get the P model.

Incidentally, I don't know whether I'd spend the more-on-top to get the Ludicrous mode. I understand that a P90DL is better than a P85DL (P85D upgraded afterwards to have ludicrous). I didn't get the chance to try ludicrous (they didn't have an upgraded P85DL or a P90DL to play with).

So, has anyone done any direct comparisons? Launching of both the 85D and the P85 in standard / sport mode to see whether there is a real difference? I would imagine there are slight differences as the P model sports the bigger motor...

tfboy · Jan 11, 2016

Sorry, I should state any difference "today".

Judging by the massive bun fight regarding HP figures in the other thread, I'm guessing that in the long run, the P85D or P90D or more precisely a PxxD will have more "potential" with the larger rear motor.

I guess in real life scenarios, there isn't a world of difference between the P85D in insane and 85D, so the former could easily be dialled down a bit to match the latter.

So I suppose my logical conclusion is whether to go for the P or not probably boils down to whether I believe there will be further future enhancements that will only be available with the P model. In a way, the Ludicrous mode is probably about the limit of what can be reached today. Who knows what's after Ludicrous? It was the last screen on the right in Spaceballs

msnow · Jan 11, 2016

@tfboy, you need to test drive just the "D" version. Don't ask here because the responses will be all over the place. You need to experience it yourself.

LetsGoFast · Jan 11, 2016

tfboy said:
Coming back from a test drive, I had the option of testing several cars, but in the end, only took out a P85D (non ludicrous). I wanted to compare the feeling in performance of the 85D (non P) and the P85D.
The Tesla rep at the time said that if you don't put the P85D in insane mode, then the performance is pretty much the same as a standard 85D.

Of course, I tested both the P85D in standard (sport) mode and insane mode and whilst you can feel a difference, I'm trying to decide whether it's worth if for me to pay the large premium to get the P model.

Incidentally, I don't know whether I'd spend the more-on-top to get the Ludicrous mode. I understand that a P90DL is better than a P85DL (P85D upgraded afterwards to have ludicrous). I didn't get the chance to try ludicrous (they didn't have an upgraded P85DL or a P90DL to play with).

So, has anyone done any direct comparisons? Launching of both the 85D and the P85 in standard / sport mode to see whether there is a real difference? I would imagine there are slight differences as the P model sports the bigger motor...

The P85D (a few updates ago) in sport mode has a 0-60 of almost exactly 4 seconds. The 85D is about 4.4 seconds. So the 85D is a bit more than 10% slower. The numbers may have changed slightly, but I'd expect the magnitude of the difference to be about the same.

Jool · Jan 11, 2016

I would highly recommend test driving an 85D/90D to feel the difference for yourself.

But I do own a 90D and have had a P85D loaner vehicle on several ocassions. The P85D in sport mode feels very similar to my 90D in terms of speed and throttle response. The P85D in insane mode felt much faster launching off the line and also in terms of general throttle response. Haven't had a chance to try out anything with ludicrous mode yet. Whether that's worth the extra money is up to you :smile:

peteyswift · Jan 11, 2016

Didn't someone drag an 85D at 3.6 sec 0-60?

Jool · Jan 11, 2016

peteyswift said:
Didn't someone drag an 85D at 3.6 sec 0-60?

Closer to 3.7-3.8, but still quick!

Video of multiple drag strip runs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOj54sRI65k

supratachophobia · Jan 11, 2016

LetsGoFast said:
The P85D (a few updates ago) in sport mode has a 0-60 of almost exactly 4 seconds. The 85D is about 4.4 seconds. So the 85D is a bit more than 10% slower. The numbers may have changed slightly, but I'd expect the magnitude of the difference to be about the same.

If you recall that guy who took his 85D to the track and dragged it 27 times, he was getting 3.9 0-60 almost every single time, and he even had 1 3.8 second 0-60 in an 1/8th mile run. The 85D is just a tad bit quicker than you might realize.

Edit: Does anyone have his times listed out. I'm curious what the decrease to 0-60 was as SoC dropped.

rns-e · Jan 12, 2016

And this topic is a prime example of why advertising the different trims with different standards for 0-60 mph just does not make sense.

You have to remember that the P85Ds 3.1s 0-60 is with 1-foot rollout and the 85Ds 4.2s 0-60 is without the 1 foot rollout, so taking a 85D to the dragstrib should provide you with 0-60 runs at 3.9s with rollout.

So it is either P85D 3.1 vs 85D 3.9s or P85D 3.4s vs 85D 4.2s for the 0-60 time

So yes, sportmode in P85D is very similar to 85D 0-60 times.

tfboy · Jan 12, 2016

Thanks for the response guys.
I guess I'll have to get another test drive with the same specs where applicable (19" wheels), same roads, etc to get a real feel for any noticable difference.
In all honest, I'm a few months away from ordering a new MS, so it's not super urgent.

3mp_kwh · Jan 13, 2016

tfboy said:
Of course, I tested both the P85D in standard (sport) mode and insane mode and whilst you can feel a difference, I'm trying to decide whether it's worth if for me to pay the large premium to get the P model.

P85D was never a 4.0 second car, to 60. Not sure where that came from. A $20k price difference is big, and so is .8-.9 seconds as you approach 3 flat. Combined, that may not help you. You'll get some of the 20k back when you sell. Sometimes, if you go with inventory cars, you could also see a lower premium to get into a P85D.

At some point, a TMC'r is going to have both a P85D and an 85D in their garage (I've never driven one). I look forward to a more A & B comparison than I feel I've read. Maybe that means you can convince yourself to be happy, either way.

benf · Jan 13, 2016

LetsGoFast said:
The P85D (a few updates ago) in sport mode has a 0-60 of almost exactly 4 seconds. The 85D is about 4.4 seconds. So the 85D is a bit more than 10% slower. The numbers may have changed slightly, but I'd expect the magnitude of the difference to be about the same.

The misinformation about P vs non-P models like this keeps getting repeated because of Tesla's website. The P models are shown with 0-60 times including a 1-foot rollout. The non-P models are shown without the rollout. This is done to make the P models look better by comparison. Frankly, I don't understand it, as the P models are WAY fast enough on their own merits, they don't need to fudge the numbers.

Anyway, with a rollout, the 85D is 3.9s to 4.0s 0-60mph consistently with stock 19" wheels/tries. If it's true that the P85D in standard (sport) mode is also around 4.0, then yes, I guess they are about the same.

Also worth noting, is that below a certain state of charge, the P85D will not be any faster than the 85D regardless of the mode. The P85D is basically battery-limited, where as the 85D is motor-limited until the battery drops to a much lower SoC. At 90% SoC with insane mode on, obviously the P85D is much faster than the 85D.

tfboy · Jan 15, 2016

Thanks benf

calisnow · Jan 16, 2016

Why do these discussions always center around 0-60 times and not top end passing power? 75 - 100 mph maybe? Those are differences that matter more - passing power at speed. Does the P85D have significantly more high end torque than the 85D? If so then that's a big deal in the real world because these cars don't exactly have a lot of top end.

AWDtsla · Jan 16, 2016

calisnow said:
Why do these discussions always center around 0-60 times and not top end passing power? 75 - 100 mph maybe? Those are differences that matter more - passing power at speed. Does the P85D have significantly more high end torque than the 85D? If so then that's a big deal in the real world because these cars don't exactly have a lot of top end.

Because almost no one needs to pass people at 100 mph. Even at 75mph mild acceleration will allow you to pass almost anyone, unless they're trying to be dicks and stop you, in which case you need 2-3x the amount of power they have to "win".

tinpandave · Jan 16, 2016

MS still blows the doors off a ford:tongue:

jcaspar · Jan 16, 2016

tinpandave said:
MS still blows the doors off a ford:tongue:

Don't you mean a BMW???

Sad · Jan 18, 2016

calisnow said:
Why do these discussions always center around 0-60 times and not top end passing power? 75 - 100 mph maybe? Those are differences that matter more - passing power at speed. Does the P85D have significantly more high end torque than the 85D? If so then that's a big deal in the real world because these cars don't exactly have a lot of top end.

Actually, the difference between the P85D and 85D at high speed is less significant than at lower speeds, as the higher peak torque of the P85D only manifests itself until 30mph or so, after that peak power will prevail, 469 (with a bit more weight) vs 422, higher power, but not much so. If you want top end passing power, you'll need the Ludicrous mode (539 hp), which gives a proper power gap at high speed with the 85D.

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Any performance difference between 85D and P85D in standard sport mode?

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