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Thread: Karma -vs- Model S

  1. #431
    ERIC VFX vfx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    ...

    Goes to show how important timing is, though.
    Elon's MO is to release a bit early and fix later for sure, though this this time Tesla largely limited the incompleteness to software items that were not mission critical. I expect this pattern to repeat itself many times.

  2. #432
    Head Moderator / Administrator doug's Avatar
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    I was talking about the timing wrt MT COTY.

    Fisker got evaluated at a time when they were way overdue to start shipping and were clearly struggling with some engineering issues. They were still some months away from delivering cars to customers (that by their own admission were riddles with bugs). Submitting a car to MT at that time was (in my 20/20 hindsight opinion) a mistake.

    Tesla on the other hand, while also facing some delays and challenges, came to the table with a much more finished product and have already started deliveries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    I was talking about the timing wrt MT COTY.

    Fisker got evaluated at a time when they were way overdue to start shipping and were clearly struggling with some engineering issues. They were still some months away from delivering cars to customers (that by their own admission were riddles with bugs). Submitting a car to MT at that time was (in my 20/20 hindsight opinion) a mistake.

    Tesla on the other hand, while also facing some delays and challenges, came to the table with a much more finished product and have already started deliveries.
    The development timeline of the Fisker Karma should be compared with the Roadster, as they both were first gen products.

  4. #434
    Head Moderator / Administrator doug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRJIM View Post
    The development timeline of the Fisker Karma should be compared with the Roadster, as they both were first gen products.
    Ok. But my point was that the Karma would have been in a much better state to be evaluated for COTY this year (after delivering some product and working out some bugs) instead of last year. The timing turned out to be more favorable to the Model S.

    Of course, this year Fisker was plagued by series of unfortunate events (fires, bankruptcy of their battery supplier, etc) and I doubt the judges work in a total vacuum.

  5. #435
    Rdstr254->725->MS1364 HUN DrTaras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vfx View Post
    If MT declared the Karma "not ready" then why not bring it back next (this) year giving them a pass.
    My guess is that there is strict criteria as to when you car can be entered.
    I'm pretty sure that COTY is not for ALL cars just "new" cars and it depends on what the meaning of the word is is!


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vfx View Post
    Tesla largely limited the incompleteness to software items that were not mission critical
    I'll have to differ with you there. Still think that a 5+2 car should not be delivered as a 5+0 car and so there were more than some software glitches
    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showt...-car-delivered
    Over 150,000 page views of "The Hun!" Model S Xformation before there were any!

  6. #436
    ERIC VFX vfx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTaras View Post
    I'll have to differ with you there. Still think that a 5+2 car should not be delivered as a 5+0 car and so there were more than some software glitches...
    I used the word largely so I'm covered.
    When the +2 deliver (2013?), ask yourself, Should Tesla have waited to not deliver one car until that time thus missing many promised deadlines (now a public company) and have a factory robots and a thousand people waiting, or should they have only delivered cars that had not ordered those 2+ parts? That would go over well! And the absence of software features could not really be called "glitches". The Karma has "glitches".
    Last edited by doug; 2012-11-15 at 10:56 AM. Reason: fixed quote tags

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    Head Moderator / Administrator doug's Avatar
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    Just to follow up on this, I tweeted Ed Loh and his response was "That's right. Fisker was in it last year... "
    Twitter / EdLoh: .@dougdirac @MotorTrend ...

    Didn't get any more clarification than that. At any rate, sounds like Fisker shoulda waited.

  8. #438
    ERIC VFX vfx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Just to follow up on this, I tweeted Ed Loh and his response was "That's right. Fisker was in it last year... "
    Twitter / EdLoh: .@dougdirac @MotorTrend ...

    Didn't get any more clarification than that. At any rate, sounds like Fisker shoulda waited.
    Sure enough

    Name:  2012-Car-of-the-Year-promo.jpg
Views: 396
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    The luxurious Fisker Karma offers range-extending electric technology similar to our 2011 COTY Chevy Volt's, at over twice the price. It may determine whether a small, independent company can make it in the 21st century, or whether the eponymous Fisker is another modern-day Tucker.


    2012 Motor Trend Car of the Year Contender: Fisker Karma

    Name:  2012-Fisker-Karma-623x389.jpg
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    Last edited by vfx; 2012-11-15 at 08:00 PM.

  9. #439
    Head Moderator / Administrator doug's Avatar
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    Consumer Reports First Drive reviews




  10. #440
    Head Moderator / Administrator doug's Avatar
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    Dan Neil:

    Rumble Seat | Dan Neil on What He Got Wrong and Right in 2012 - WSJ.com

    First and worst: I was too easy on the Fisker Karma, a range-extended plug-in electric luxury sedan built in Finland and imported by the Orange County, Calif.-based company. I really wanted this car to be great, and I have great respect for Henrik Fisker, whose company, having received a highly vetted Department of Energy loan, got smeared during the presidential campaign, a la Solyndra. As unfair as these attacks were, they should have been inadmissible evidence in my judgment of Karma; instead, I found myself rooting for Fisker as an underdog.

    In the review, published in February, I tied myself in knots trying to praise the Karma, even resorting to the "world's most interesting car" banality. But in the end, I see in hindsight, the car is too heavy, too overpromised in terms of performance and efficiency, and it is just too durably weird-looking to love. Put a jar in your Fisker Karma, and put a dollar in the jar every time somebody asks you, "What the hell are you driving, mister?" You could put a kid through college that way.

    ...
    Before leaving the Karma: It will likely surprise the Fisker people to learn I let them off the hook. "The whole thing is pretty overdrawn, for my tastes," I wrote. "The diamond motif is painful. The intersection of the curving shoulder line and the rising front fender line creates a visual slackness at the base of the windshield, making the car look like it's sagging a bit."

    It is not uncommon for me to write what I consider to be a fairly positive review, only to have the manufacturer, or some batty enthusiast, accuse me of malice. It all depends on whose investment fund is being gored.
    A Few Good Calls:
    ...
    Tesla Model S
    The world's first fully legitimate electric sedan cleaned up on Car of the Year awards. Built in Silicon Valley, this is certainly one the most important cars in history and a triumph of American ingenuity we can all be proud of.

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