HEADS-UP: Simultaneously Charging a Tesla and a LEAF

[ChargeIt!]

William3 said ... (in a thread about "stock rims for sale"):

I was cleaning out the garage (to make room for the Nissan Leaf) and realized that I still have these rims.

From a LEAF Forum (7th post on page 1)

Bottom Line: Do *NOT* charge a LEAF and a Tesla at the same time.

Further info from the grapevine:

Further digging ... it appears the on-board charger in the LEAF causes a substantial amount of noise on the circuit and house panel, which also feeds into the Roadster's PEM causing a "bug-zapper" type of noise

And apparently Nissan is working on the issue. And might have a noise-filter solution within a few weeks.

It seems prudent to
a. pay attention to the Tesla PEM if the Roadster is plugged in and charging when you plug in your LEAF for charging at 240V; the above referenced link speaks of 2008, or 1.5 Roadster, and it is unknown whether the (significantly different) 2.0 PEM has the same symptom;
b. avoid simultaneous charging until the LEAF is "fixed".
c. Even if no apparent "noise" is noticed in 2.0 Roadster ... I'd be cautious.
d. Even with LEAF 120V charging ... I'd be cautious.

Just a heads-up ...

[TEG]

Do any of the EVSE's provide line noise filtering on the 240V? I wonder if this issue could be more or less pronounced depending on what J1772 EVSE you use to plug in the Leaf.

[ChargeIt!]

WOW!!! Thanks for posting that!!! I had no idea. I've only charged them both at same time once (that I can recall) and didn't notice anything weird, but who knows what was really happening. Sheesh.

Is your Roadster 2008 or later (Vin<500, or >=500) ?

[ChargeIt!]

Do any of the EVSE's provide line noise filtering on the 240V? I wonder if this issue could be more or less pronounced depending on what J1772 EVSE you use to plug in the Leaf.

A regular EVSE (the ones at residences and "resonably" priced) definitely do not contain noise filtering of the power lines (in or out) ... there's simply a relay or a contactor between the car and the breaker. Although there may be more complex things going on (from an analog circuit perspective) causing some variation, my hunch is that the EVSE model won't make any significant difference.

[ChargeIt!]

My car is a 2010 Roadster #8xx
My Roadster charger is the 70amp HPC.
My Leaf charger is the one that Nissan is pushing (made by AV).
I barely find time to keep up with THIS forum, so I don't really bother with the Leaf forum. If you guys that read it discover anything else that I should know please pass it along. Thanks!

2010 Roadsters might be ok because the PEM is so significantly different. But that's not really the point, because if the LEAF causes such problems on a 2008 Roadster, PV inverters, GFCI's, other electronic equipment in the house (according to the LEAF forum posts), then there's something that needs to be fixed on the LEAF. Of course, not all LEAFs might be "bad", but it sounds like it's not an isolated case.

Open the trunk of the 2010 Roadster and wait for the normal noises (pumps, fans) to stabilize and to "learn" them. Then plug in the Roadster and start charging, all the while carefully again "learning" the normal noises, this time specifically from the PEM. Now have a helper plug in the LEAF and listen carefully what happens at the PEM of the Roadster when the LEAF starts charging. Try at least 24A and 40A and 70A on the roadster, although my guess is ... it won't make a difference.

You may not be able to hear any effect/noise-diference when the LEAF charges, which would be good.

Another test to see if your LEAF is "bad": invite over a 2008 Roadster owner.

[TEG]

I have PV inverters right next to my Leaf EVSE. So far (knock on wood), I haven't heard any unusual noises from the inverters or anything else in the house while the Leaf charges.
Maybe I got a "good" charger in the Leaf, or maybe something else about the house wiring is a contributing factor.
(As usual, grounding paths are a topic of discussion.)

[scott451]

Further digging ... it appears the on-board charger in the LEAF causes a substantial amount of noise on the circuit and house panel, which also feeds into the Roadster's PEM causing a "bug-zapper" type of noise

I've heard the 60Hz "bug-zapper" at home on clean (evening) power charging my 1.5, so I don't think it is a leaf thing...

It seems prudent to
a. pay attention to the Tesla PEM if the Roadster is plugged in and charging when you plug in your LEAF for charging at 240V; the above referenced link speaks of 2008, or 1.5 Roadster, and it is unknown whether the (significantly different) 2.0 PEM has the same symptom;
b. avoid simultaneous charging until the LEAF is "fixed".
c. Even if no apparent "noise" is noticed in 2.0 Roadster ... I'd be cautious.
d. Even with LEAF 120V charging ... I'd be cautious.

I just experienced this problem. I have been charging on a 208V nema 14-30 outlet at work for a couple of months. Last Friday a new leaf parked in the spot next to mine and plugged into the 120V outlet. Within a few hours, the GFI breaker on my outlet tripped. The same thing happend today (Tuesday). A few hours later I was able to reset the breaker and finish charging. It seems that the leaf can trip my breaker when it is drawing max current, but doesn't seem to trip it when it's near the end of it's (the leaf's) charge.

I worked with the electrician when the outlet was installed and we upgraded to #8 wire... So I know the wiring is good. When this happened, I double checked it again.

The power comes from a 3 phase breaker. My outlet is on the B & C phases. The 120V outlets are on the B & C phases too and share a common neutral (allowed for 3 phase systems). We plan to move one of the outlets to the A phase in an attempt to keep the Leaf's dirty power off the B&C phases. I will also try and measure the power factor of the leaf charger.

[S-2000 Roadster]

I worked with the electrician when the outlet was installed and we upgraded to #8 wire... So I know the wiring is good. When this happened, I double checked it again.

I didn't know any better, and installed #4 wire (four separate 70 A wires) with my NEMA 14-50R, and I also used a 60 A breaker. I'm planning on "downgrading" to 55 A wire and a 50 A breaker, now that I realize the Roadster really only pulls 40 A on the NEMA 14-50. After reading this thread, I wonder if I should expect problems to appear?

[Jaff]

...so a Leaf moves in, and there goes the neighbourhood?...

I've heard the 60Hz "bug-zapper" at home on clean (evening) power charging my 1.5, so I don't think it is a leaf thing...



I just experienced this problem. I have been charging on a 208V nema 14-30 outlet at work for a couple of months. Last Friday a new leaf parked in the spot next to mine and plugged into the 120V outlet. Within a few hours, the GFI breaker on my outlet tripped. The same thing happend today (Tuesday). A few hours later I was able to reset the breaker and finish charging. It seems that the leaf can trip my breaker when it is drawing max current, but doesn't seem to trip it when it's near the end of it's (the leaf's) charge.

I worked with the electrician when the outlet was installed and we upgraded to #8 wire... So I know the wiring is good. When this happened, I double checked it again.

The power comes from a 3 phase breaker. My outlet is on the B & C phases. The 120V outlets are on the B & C phases too and share a common neutral (allowed for 3 phase systems). We plan to move one of the outlets to the A phase in an attempt to keep the Leaf's dirty power off the B&C phases. I will also try and measure the power factor of the leaf charger.

[Talkredius]

I've heard the 60Hz "bug-zapper" at home on clean (evening) power charging my 1.5, so I don't think it is a leaf thing...

if I remember correctly range-meister Eberhard mentioned in a different thread, that Tesla licensed the charger from A.C. Propulsion for the first 500 Roadsters.
In the this charger the winding of the stator is used for charging ( as a choke ? ) So it would be normal to hear this noise, it is generated by the micro movement of the wires,which are pushed and pulled with 60 Hz. When the motor rotates you won't hear this due to the louder bearing + fan noise.