Model X Frunk - Power open/close

This has been discuses in a few threads. It's federal law that a hood needs to have a manual (non electronic) lock and release. Would be nice but I think we can chalk this one up to the feds.

Sogorman said:

This has been discuses in a few threads. It's federal law that a hood needs to have a manual (non electronic) lock and release. Would be nice but I think we can chalk this one up to the feds.

Click to expand...

Couldn't it have both? At work, we have windows that automatically open to let in fresh air. If desired, we can also manually open them. Same with my garage door. Normally it is automatic but I can easily unlock it and open it manually.

It seems they could do something similar with the hood.

Some regulations need exceptions and this is one of them... I'm sure Tesla would love to make the frunk auto open and auto close but no can do...

Jeff

I am not interested in automatic door opening/closing. It looks like a solution in search of a problem. I hope that feature can be shut off.

I am interested in a kick sensor to open/close the hatchback. I thought this was a just gimmick when Ford included it on my 2013 C-Max Energi. However, I found it very useful countless times when approaching the car with hands full both at home and while shopping. The same observation would apply to the frunk if that would be legal.

Sogorman said:

This has been discuses in a few threads. It's federal law that a hood needs to have a manual (non electronic) lock and release. Would be nice but I think we can chalk this one up to the feds.

Click to expand...

That is a pathetic excuse. Even if that were true, why can't the thing be designed to survive being drop-closed like any reasonable hood? This is definitely my "least favorite" thing about the Model S.

Perhaps the real problem is with a single catch that excessively concentrates the compression of the weather seal in one place instead of distributing it sufficiently to avoid deforming the lid. There is definitely something "frunky" about the current design, and it's inexcusable not to have corrected it for the Model X.

Sogorman said:

This has been discuses in a few threads. It's federal law that a hood needs to have a manual (non electronic) lock and release. Would be nice but I think we can chalk this one up to the feds.

Click to expand...

Well, the MS does not have a manual release any more, so obviously that part isn't true.

I think the original problem is that a manual "catch" is required so that if the hood pops open on the freeway by mistake it will not flip open from the air and fly off, potentially killing other people. This won't be able to be solved electronically.

indy360 said:

I think the original problem is that a manual "catch" is required so that if the hood pops open on the freeway by mistake it will not flip open from the air and fly off, potentially killing other people. This won't be able to be solved electronically.

Click to expand...

Except that once again, the Model S does not have such a system. The release is 100% electronic, I press one button on either the touch screen, or the fob, and the Frunk is completely unlatched. Sure it has a double latch (as required) but one electronic button releases both.

ThosEM said:

That is a pathetic excuse. Even if that were true, why can't the thing be designed to survive being drop-closed like any reasonable hood? This is definitely my "least favorite" thing about the Model S.

Perhaps the real problem is with a single catch that excessively concentrates the compression of the weather seal in one place instead of distributing it sufficiently to avoid deforming the lid. There is definitely something "frunky" about the current design, and it's inexcusable not to have corrected it for the Model X.

Click to expand...

I read somewhere that the hood is so light (aluminum) that it won't drop-close like a normal hood.

akordz said:

I read somewhere that the hood is so light (aluminum) that it won't drop-close like a normal hood.

Click to expand...

It's not the first aluminium hood on a production car. My 1983 Mercedes had an aluminium hood, and I could drop it, slam it, sit on it, etc without any problems.

If Tesla can't figure this one out, they need to look in to heavier metal, or another material (plastic? CF?)

green1 said:

It's not the first aluminium hood on a production car. My 1983 Mercedes had an aluminium hood, and I could drop it, slam it, sit on it, etc without any problems.

If Tesla can't figure this one out, they need to look in to heavier metal, or another material (plastic? CF?)

Click to expand...

Very different grade of AL and even that 1983 merc had some steel in the hood.

At the factory the other night for the Meet Model X event their design studio actually had a Carbon Fiber hood on a Model S -- looks like something they are experimenting with but not ready for prime time yet.

pvogel said:

Very different grade of AL and even that 1983 merc had some steel in the hood.

Click to expand...

Not our fault they chose the wrong grade of Al, and I never found any steel in that hood, I tried with a magnet.
There are certainly many other Al hoods on cars both new and old, and none of the other ones are reporting the problems the model S has.

At the factory the other night for the Meet Model X event their design studio actually had a Carbon Fiber hood on a Model S -- looks like something they are experimenting with but not ready for prime time yet.

Click to expand...

If they can't figure out how to do Al right, I hope they do change to CF.

green1 said:

Not our fault they chose the wrong grade of Al, and I never found any steel in that hood, I tried with a magnet.
There are certainly many other Al hoods on cars both new and old, and none of the other ones are reporting the problems the model S has.


If they can't figure out how to do Al right, I hope they do change to CF.

Click to expand...

Weight, which is not a significant consideration with ICE is a huge factor here. Tesla is using aircraft grade AL (very strong for the weight + thickness) and, trust me, they know how to do Aluminum right, but they have a reasonable expectation that if they tell the customer how to properly treat their $70+k car that the customer will be careful with it.

The ICE manufacturers are happy to use lower grade, heavier AL and make it thicker and more resistant to dents (not to mention it needs to handle the heat of an ICE) because ICE drivers have to open their hoods a lot more often and ICE mechanics aren't going to be as careful with the car. Tesla is trying to keep things as light as possible to keep the range high.

It's a design tradeoff, they happen every day in every walk of life.

Peter+

pvogel said:

they have a reasonable expectation that if they tell the customer how to properly treat their $70+k car that the customer will be careful with it.

Click to expand...

Except they've changed these instructions a dozen times, they're inconsistent from employee to employee, and they don't seem to be effective anyway. So if Tesla themselves haven't figured out how to properly treat the $70+k car that they built, how on earth are the customers supposed to?
"careful" is one thing, but the frunk thing is way beyond that.

pvogel said:

The ICE manufacturers are happy to use lower grade, heavier AL and make it thicker and more resistant to dents (not to mention it needs to handle the heat of an ICE) because ICE drivers have to open their hoods a lot more often

Click to expand...

How can you say that? The only time I open the hood on my ICE is to fill the windshield fluid every few months. If I buy a Tesla, I can assure you I will be using the frunk 10x more often.

This relates more to the model S (so far), but about half of the loaners I've received had the bent hood.

Does someone have reference to that "federal law" that is talked about?

FMVSS 113 says nothing about manual close:

§571.113 Standard No. 113; Hood latch system.
S1. Purpose and scope. This standard establishes the requirement for providing a hood latch system or hood latch systems.

S2. Application. This standard applies to passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses.

S3. Definitions. Hood means any exterior movable body panel forward of the windshield that is used to cover an engine, luggage, storage, or battery compartment.

S4. Requirements.

S4.1 Each hood must be provided with a hood latch system.

S4.2 A front opening hood which, in any open position, partially or completely obstructs a driver's forward view through the windshield must be provided with a second latch position on the hood latch system or with a second hood latch system.

Click to expand...

This wouldn't seem to preclude having a dual-latch system with 2 electric releases or power open/close mechanism.

FlasherZ said:

This wouldn't seem to preclude having a dual-latch system with 2 electric releases.

Click to expand...

Good thing it doesn't preclude it, because Tesla's already been doing it for several years and somehow managed to get FMVSS certification...