How many MA drivers are on TOU rates?

RAW84 · Sep 13, 2015

Hey, how many drivers here in Massachusetts are on TOU rates?

I'm looking at TOU rates trying to decide if I should switch. The summer on peak rates are really high (over 20 cents, not including supplier charges!), so they can really eat into your savings. I have a rough idea on how much energy my car uses (which is nearly completely off-peak), but I don't have a good idea on how much of the energy my house uses is off peak. I know that just under 75% of the yearly hours are off peak, but what would be a good guess at what % of the energy is off peak?

From what I can tell, I'd need roughly 70% of my energy to be off peak in order to make TOU save money.

tliving · Sep 14, 2015

RAW84 said:
Hey, how many drivers here in Massachusetts are on TOU rates?

I'm looking at TOU rates trying to decide if I should switch. The summer on peak rates are really high (over 20 cents, not including supplier charges!), so they can really eat into your savings. I have a rough idea on how much energy my car uses (which is nearly completely off-peak), but I don't have a good idea on how much of the energy my house uses is off peak. I know that just under 75% of the yearly hours are off peak, but what would be a good guess at what % of the energy is off peak?

From what I can tell, I'd need roughly 70% of my energy to be off peak in order to make TOU save money.

Every time i've looked at this it hasn't made sense even for a decent amount of residential use:
National Grid - Time-of-Use (G-3)

It starts with a $200/month charge but then has all sorts of charges, some by kW and some by kWh. Has anyone made sense of it?

RAW84 · Sep 14, 2015

That's a commercial rate. I'm talking residential R-4 rate

The residential rate for Grid is here: National Grid - Time of Use
For Eversource here: https://www.eversource.com/Content/docs/default-source/rates-tariffs/123.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Customer charge is still expensive at $20 for Grid and $10 for Eversource eastern mass, but it seems to me TOU would make sense of a significant enough of a portion of your energy is off peak. My calculations (for Eversource eastern ma) suggest that if your energy is greater than about 70% off peak then it's worth it.

3mp_kwh · Sep 15, 2015

Realize weekends and holidays are all off peak, but if someone is home in the day you can start losing ground. You effectively save the transmission rate, and if I remember, TOU break even was 2-3:1. I see 5-6:1 Program wtr heat at night.

"14-04" tvr is about to change things.

511keV · Sep 15, 2015

I won't be taking advantage of the TOU rates as my monthly electrical energy use even with charging the MS is not much over half the minimum monthly energy use (2500 kwh) required to qualify for the R-4 rates. I'm wondering how the "14-04" time varying rates will change things, too.

pcrow · Sep 16, 2015

How would this work with solar? We have solar panels, so if we get credit for generation based on time as well, then it could be a huge win, as all of our generation is during the day.

Alan Refalo · Sep 17, 2015

I have solar on my house as well and thought TOU would benefit me since I generate electricity during the day. However when I called National grid they told me that TOU was not available in my area. I live on the North Shore.

RAW84 · Sep 17, 2015

511keV said:
I won't be taking advantage of the TOU rates as my monthly electrical energy use even with charging the MS is not much over half the minimum monthly energy use (2500 kwh) required to qualify for the R-4 rates.

I am not aware of this requirement...is this written somewhere?

I'm not using half that amount, house and car.

511keV said:
I'm wondering how the "14-04" time varying rates will change things, too.

I haven't heard much on this front. Back in June I received an email from the Mor°Ev folks inviting me to buy a Clipper Creek level 2 charger at a reduced cost ($500) so that I could participate in a program that would monitor my charging habits. They specifically noted that: "The research from this pilot will help EVERSOURCE design an effective time-of-day rate for customers who own a plug-in electric vehicle"

Naturally, owning a Tesla, I have no need for a level 2 charger at home. I meant to respond stating this and noting that Tesla is likely collecting this data for its customers anyway. Don't know if they'd share tho.

511keV · Sep 17, 2015

RAW84 said:
I am not aware of this requirement...is this written somewhere?

I'm not using half that amount, house and car.

I haven't heard much on this front. Back in June I received an email from the Mor°Ev folks inviting me to buy a Clipper Creek level 2 charger at a reduced cost ($500) so that I could participate in a program that would monitor my charging habits. They specifically noted that: "The research from this pilot will help EVERSOURCE design an effective time-of-day rate for customers who own a plug-in electric vehicle"

Naturally, owning a Tesla, I have no need for a level 2 charger at home. I meant to respond stating this and noting that Tesla is likely collecting this data for its customers anyway. Don't know if they'd share tho.

The National Grid site (National Grid - Service Rates) states "Time-of-Use (R-4) This rate is available for any residential, church or farm customer whose average energy usage exceeds 2,500 kWh/month."

RAW84 · Sep 18, 2015

Oh ok, I was only looking at Eversource's site.

juliusa · Sep 19, 2015

511keV said:
The National Grid site (National Grid - Service Rates) states "Time-of-Use (R-4) This rate is available for any residential, church or farm customer whose average energy usage exceeds 2,500 kWh/month."

2,500 kWh a month? Wow! I don't think many would qualify. We have a large house and Model S in Connecticut, no solar, and don't come close to that.

3mp_kwh · Sep 21, 2015

tes-s said:
2,500 kWh a month? Wow! I don't think many would qualify. We have a large house and Model S in Connecticut, no solar, and don't come close to that.

I was the one at the EV hearing, months ago, pointing out after Nat Grid maintained subscriptions showed users aren't interested in TOU, that they were the ones requiring this (unique) minimum in MA. It was more than a little surprising, when a hearing officer had me describe how high 2,500kwh/month was.

I'm learning that going to hearings can be important. My house isn't even on National Grid's turf.

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