Coming over from a Volt? Should I upgrade?

jimtelsa · Sep 12, 2015

Hey

So my new girl arrives any day, CPO Red 85

I have not put that much attention to charging until the last couple days

Nerves I guess and now the need to research more since my car is almost here

here goes

My Home set up consists of a modified Chevy Volt charger that was converted to a 240 unit.

It works great and gives a full charge in under 4 hours....I use this to also to charge my sons Smart ED

I planned on using this with the J1772 adapter to charge the Tesla

I have it hooked up to a 20 amp breaker

I still will need to charge the Smart, but have a second 110 charger hooked up on the other side when the times come to charge both at the same time..im on TOU

Will this suffice i dont have room in my box to add another breaker and not sure if i could replace the 20 amp and go higher

I plan to try and hit a Supercharger once a week, but need to know that this could give me a little back up

Is this cool to keep as is or should I upgrade

What amount of miles per hour will this give the Tesla

Thanks

dirkhh · Sep 12, 2015

20A breaker gives you 16A charge current times 240V gives you 3.8kW - that's about 12 miles an hour. With 3EVs that means you need to schedule things rather carefully. The 110V isn't really adding much - usually 15A which gives you 12A or about 1.3kW or 4 miles an hour.
It all depends how much you drive. If you average under 100 miles a day you can charge the Tesla over night (~8 hours).

wk057 · Sep 12, 2015

When I got my first Model S, coming from a 2012 Volt, I used the same 16A EVSE I had installed already for over a month without issue. You can still recover daily driving miles overnight with it for the most part. 8 hours at 16A/240V can recover 90-100 miles of range on the Model S, so it's decent for overnight charging. You'll likely find it's more than enough for your needs unless you drive 200 miles per day or something and probably won't need to local supercharge (which is honestly an inconvenience akin to going to a gas station when you local supercharge, IMO, something that is avoidable on a daily basis with home charging).

jimtelsa · Sep 12, 2015

Volt is going Bye Bye...So its Tesla number one and Smart second

dirkhh · Sep 12, 2015

jimtelsa said:
Volt is going Bye Bye...So its Tesla number one and Smart second

Well, then the math gets simpler. How many hours a day is the Smart in the garage? That times 4 is the maximum number of miles you can drive it a day (yeah, oversimplification, but work with me). Let's assume the Smart is in the garage for 10h a day and usually driven fewer than 40 miles then you're good. If your son averages more than 60 miles but fewer than 15h in the garage he needs access to the 240V charger for part of his garage time.
Same logic for the Tesla. 10h in garage and less than 120 miles average daily driving, you're good.

Makes sense?

ForeverFree · Sep 12, 2015

dirkhh said:
Well, then the math gets simpler. How many hours a day is the Smart in the garage? That times 4 is the maximum number of miles you can drive it a day (yeah, oversimplification, but work with me). Let's assume the Smart is in the garage for 10h a day and usually driven fewer than 40 miles then you're good. If your son averages more than 60 miles but fewer than 15h in the garage he needs access to the 240V charger for part of his garage time.
Same logic for the Tesla. 10h in garage and less than 120 miles average daily driving, you're good.

Makes sense?

You might also invest in a Chademo adapter.

The adapter is pricey, but charging is semi-Supercharge fast, and there are Chademo stations available in Simi. I used one (at the Nissan dealer) while waiting for my home HPWC to get signed off by LADWP. Charging rates are respectable ... around 150 mph, as I recall.

MichFin · Sep 12, 2015

I just have to say that it's nice just having the Tesla HPWC and not worrying about it. You should get by no problem without it though.

StaceyS · Sep 12, 2015

We got our CPO P85 at the end of June and so far, we've only been charging on a 120v outlet. I did upgrade the outlet to a dedicated 20 amp outlet and got the Tesla 6-20 plug (its a 30 amp breaker), that increased my charging from 4 mph to 5!. We don't drive much in town so we're able to replace that during the night. I also have access to 120v outlet (15 amp) at my office, so if we really need to charge, we charge the car at home overnight, drive 2 miles to the office and plug it in there too. Yes, it takes 60 hours to charge from completely empty to completely full, but 8 hours of charging while at work is 32 miles, which is 30 miles more than I need to get home. So far, the 120v charging adds range faster than we drive it down, so its been working. The only challenge we might have is if we come back from a long distance trip, and need to go somewhere else the next day. So far, its been manageable, and there's a country club near us that has a HPWC for use at their restaurant, so we could just go have dinner there and fill the car if needed.

We are going to run more power out to our detached, unheated garage. I'm pretty sure when winter hits, the poor little 120v circuit won't be able to heat the battery and charge the car appreciably at the same time. I met with an electrician this past week, and rather than swap circuits around in our main panel, we're pulling another feeder from our meter base and running 100-125 amps in a new trench to the garage. We'll set a new panel there and split off 240v and 120v circuits. For now, I'm just planning to do a nema 14-50, but I'll have enough capacity to do a Tesla HPWC if I want later on.

TexasEV · Sep 12, 2015

StaceyS said:
We got our CPO P85 at the end of June and so far, we've only been charging on a 120v outlet. I did upgrade the outlet to a dedicated 20 amp outlet and got the Tesla 6-20 plug (its a 30 amp breaker), that increased my charging from 4 mph to 5!. We don't drive much in town so we're able to replace that during the night. I also have access to 120v outlet (15 amp) at my office, so if we really need to charge, we charge the car at home overnight, drive 2 miles to the office and plug it in there too. Yes, it takes 60 hours to charge from completely empty to completely full, but 8 hours of charging while at work is 32 miles, which is 30 miles more than I need to get home. So far, the 120v charging adds range faster than we drive it down, so its been working. The only challenge we might have is if we come back from a long distance trip, and need to go somewhere else the next day. So far, its been manageable, and there's a country club near us that has a HPWC for use at their restaurant, so we could just go have dinner there and fill the car if needed.

We are going to run more power out to our detached, unheated garage. I'm pretty sure when winter hits, the poor little 120v circuit won't be able to heat the battery and charge the car appreciably at the same time. I met with an electrician this past week, and rather than swap circuits around in our main panel, we're pulling another feeder from our meter base and running 100-125 amps in a new trench to the garage. We'll set a new panel there and split off 240v and 120v circuits. For now, I'm just planning to do a nema 14-50, but I'll have enough capacity to do a Tesla HPWC if I want later on.

You'll be much happier with the new setup. Owning a Model S with a 14-50 or HPWC in your garage is an entirely different experience.

By the way, it's a 5-20 adapter, not 6-20, and that circuit should be on a 20A breaker.

GSP · Sep 12, 2015

Ideally your panel may be able to accept a 50 A breaker, by replacing existing breakers with half-height ones. If you have too many loads to allow 50 A, perhaps you could get a 20 or 30 A breaker and still charge your Tesla at 240 V and also the smart ED at the same time. That would be most convenient.

I would have two or three electricians assess what can be done and give you quotes, then have the one you like best do the work.

GSP

jimtelsa · Sep 12, 2015

I guess I will have somebody come out and check my set up

I am stepping up to a better set of wheels

I will see if the breakers can be modified....

GSP said:
Ideally your panel may be able to accept a 50 A breaker, by replacing existing breakers with half-height ones. If you have too many loads to allow 50 A, perhaps you could get a 20 or 30 A breaker and still charge your Tesla at 240 V and also the smart ED at the same time. That would be most convenient.

I would have two or three electricians assess what can be done and give you quotes, then have the one you like best do the work.

GSP

KJD · Sep 12, 2015

jimtelsa said:
I guess I will have somebody come out and check my set up

I am stepping up to a better set of wheels

I will see of the breakers....

Have you read the home charging FAQ that FlasherZ wrote? It has a lot of good information and might give you some ideas on what questions to ask of an electrician when they do look at your current system.

FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure QA

Khatsalano · Sep 13, 2015

You'll need to get a full quote from an electrician to see what exactly you'e talking about. You may need main or sub or service drop upgrades.

In my opinion, you need to do something different. I would start by defining your requirements and breaking it down to simple physics ... how many miles do you need to charge in total, across all cars, in the off-peak TOU window? Then convert that number to kWh. Then you will be able to simply assess whether you can do this sustainably or not. My feeling is, you'll want a wall-mounted HPWC at 40A-80A because it's just too easy and convenient.

Hitting the SC once a week is going to get real annoying for you real quick.

- K

Bangor Bob · Sep 13, 2015

Pull a big run (100A) to a sub-panel in the garage, split out a 10-30 for your existing EVSE for the Smart and wire up a new charger for the S?

MFrunkerOG · Sep 13, 2015

^ what he said... But you'd also be okay with a 50A breaker if your CPO has a single charger...

vdiv · Sep 13, 2015

I could not get the 2011/2012 (120/240V upgraded) Leaf nor Volt charging cords to work with the Model S with a J1772r to TSL-02p adapter so I ended up just buying another UMC for home charging. Also got a CHAdeMO adapter and have used it now a few times.

jimtelsa · Sep 14, 2015

vkrishan said:
^ what he said... But you'd also be okay with a 50A breaker if your CPO has a single charger...

single charger 2013 volt modded 240 charger...so I hope it works for now....

David_Cary · Sep 14, 2015

Just to chime in. I have a modified 240V Leaf charger with the J1772 that I've been using for 4 months to charge both a Leaf and the S. Last night I didn't plug either in.

It was the weekend and Sat night I went to 90% on the S and Sat AM, the Leaf went to 100%. The S has about 180 right now and I have 70 to drive today but a free J1772 at one location (where I am the majority of the day). Leaf is at 75% now.

I'm going to plug in the Leaf since it is for my wife and I have no idea her plan except that she leaves at 8 so I should plug her in by 6:30 to make sure she is at 100%.

So one plug for 2 cars is doable. I've used the 110 once or twice to help. Really helps that the S can charge for the bulk of the night and I can plug in the Leaf at 5AM when I usually get up (6kw charger). My off peak window is 9p-10a in the summer but in a few weeks it becomes 9p-6a with an additional window of 1-4p. I am going to have to change my routine or put in a second plug soon....

FWIW - I don't have a fixed amount of driving. I'm at 5500 miles since June 1 with 3 road trips - 400RT each. So I guess for daily driving I'm 1200 a month - 40 a day. My wife is right about 40 a day too.

Last point - using the adapter is a pain. Not a huge pain but a pain. I'm often worried that I will drive off without it. Mostly not a big deal if I left home without it but still.

jimtelsa · Sep 14, 2015

Good points...thats where I will be to start...thanks for the input

David_Cary said:
Just to chime in. I ha
e a modified 240V Leaf charger with the J1772 that I've been using for 4 months to charge both a Leaf and the S. Last night I didn't plug either in.

It was the weekend and Sat night I went to 90% on the S and Sat AM, the Leaf went to 100%. The S has about 180 right now and I have 70 to drive today but a free J1772 at one location (where I am the majority of the day). Leaf is at 75% now.

I'm going to plug in the Leaf since it is for my wife and I have no idea her plan except that she leaves at 8 so I should plug her in by 6:30 to make sure she is at 100%.

So one plug for 2 cars is doable. I've used the 110 once or twice to help. Really helps that the S can charge for the bulk of the night and I can plug in the Leaf at 5AM when I usually get up (6kw charger). My off peak window is 9p-10a in the summer but in a few weeks it becomes 9p-6a with an additional window of 1-4p. I am going to have to change my routine or put in a second plug soon....

FWIW - I don't have a fixed amount of driving. I'm at 5500 miles since June 1 with 3 road trips - 400RT each. So I guess for daily driving I'm 1200 a month - 40 a day. My wife is right about 40 a day too.

Last point - using the adapter is a pain. Not a huge pain but a pain. I'm often worried that I will drive off without it. Mostly not a big deal if I left home without it but still.

MichFin · Sep 14, 2015

Also, don't forget to check if your Electric company has off peak rates for EV's. I had to really look into it but I was able to get a separate meter with off peak rates at 1/2 the price. So now I'm paying about $60 a month for both my Volt and Tesla.

Coming over from a Volt? Should I upgrade?

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