Tesla's Supercharger recommendation

David99 · Sep 11, 2015

For the longest time Tesla did not have any info about the shared Supercharger stalls. Now (not sure when exactly they added it) they have this recommendation

How can I maximize power and reduce charge time at a Supercharger?
Each charge post is labeled with a number and letter, either A or B (e.g. 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B). When possible, select a charge post with a unique number that is not currently connected to a Model S. When a unique number isn’t available, the Supercharger cabinet has technology to share available power between charge posts A and B. To maximize power, park at a Supercharger shared with a car that is nearly done charging.

Quite frankly I think the whole shared charger concept isn't great but I see, from a technical point of view, how it makes much better use of the resources. But it just sucks when you arrive at a Supercharger. The labels are usually hard to read from within a car, especially at night. When some stalls are taken, those labels are hidden by the cars. Many times half or more are taken, so now it's a pure gable to find the stall that is paired with the car that has the highest charge level, thus offering the highest charge rate out of all.

Here is an idea how to fix the problem:
I really wish Tesla would have a colored LED light on all stalls similar to a traffic light.
Green = not shared, full power available
Yellow = shared, but more than 60 kW available
Red = shared and less than 60 kW available
With such a simple color code on top of each stall, you can very quickly locate the stall that gives you the best charge rate.

Oba · Sep 11, 2015

David99 said:
I really wish Tesla would have a colored LED light on all stalls similar to a traffic light.
Green = not shared, full power available
Yellow = shared, but more than 60 kW available
Red = shared and less than 60 kW available
With such a simple color code on top of each stall, you can very quickly locate the stall that gives you the best charge rate.

Red should mean that there's some problem with the charger.
Yellow - shared, reduced power available
Green - available

cpa · Sep 12, 2015

I suggested this over a year ago on Tesla Motors' forum. What I think would be cooler would be to have the newer stalls with the lighted TESLA logo to be able to have different colors. All green on a stall would indicate maximum power. All red on a stall would be inoperable or unavailable. Then to differentiate among the various stages of reduced power, have the the following:

TESL [green] A [yellow] reduced power at around 80%
TES [green] LA [yellow] reduced power at around 60%
TE [green] SLA [yellow] reduced power at around 40%
T [green] ESLA [yellow] reduced power at around 20%.

This could be a little tricky on a bright day, and the older installations would have to be retrofitted with the newer lighted ones.

What strikes me as utter nonsense is Tesla's suggestion, "To maximize power, park at a Supercharger with a car that is nearly done charging."

How on earth are we to be able to tell that the red S85D is nearly done, but the white 70D is not? Some layouts of the charging are consecutive (1A-1B-2A-2B) while others are sequential (1A-2A-1B-2B.) So, we pull up at an 8-stall Supercharger, and we find that 6/8 are in use. Do we drive in and canvass the owners who are still around? We pull into stall 3B, look for 3A, and the owner is absent. 2A is also available. Owner at 2B is present, and he says that he has 5-10 minutes more. So as we get into our car to move to 2A, someone else pulls up to charge and parks at 2A. Curses!

A few times (Ft. Tejon, Rancho Cucamonga) I have encountered congestion and asked the owners still present how long they have been plugged in and how much power they are pulling. The owners were clueless about the power draw (had MPH instead of kW) and were not clear as to how long they had been charging, or for how long they were going to charge. "Our battery is at 122 miles, and I think I will charge to 235 or more." [Sigh.]

Suggestions such as what Tesla promotes on their website are nice, but likely have not been experienced in real life by those making them. There just is no substitute for life's experiences!

apacheguy · Sep 12, 2015

What y'all are suggesting involves hardware changes. Why not just make it simpler and have the Nav direct the owner to park in the appropriate stall? I really want to see tighter integration of the supposed real time SpC status that all cars have access to.

Todd Burch · Sep 12, 2015

apacheguy said:
What y'all are suggesting involves hardware changes. Why not just make it simpler and have the Nav direct the owner to park in the appropriate stall? I really want to see tighter integration of the supposed real time SpC status that all cars have access to.

Agree. This is a cheaper and better solution, since it doesn't involve additional hardware, plus also gives more info right in the car.

It'd be awesome if a diagram popped up on the nav when you're within 200 feet of a supercharger which shows:
a) Your car's position and orientation
b) All available stalls
c) Indication showing which stalls would be the best to pull into.

There is **soo** much untapped potential with the Model S's center screen/systems that it's crazy. When my first S arrived in Dec. of 2012, I had no idea that almost 3 years later we'd STILL be waiting for as much as we're still waiting for.

RDoc · Sep 12, 2015

IIRC part of auto parking was for Supercharger bays, so... perhaps you just get to the Supercharger lot and let the car automatically select the correct bay and back right in! Then the Snake charger uncoils and, after snapping up any mice or other rodents nearby, plugs in for you just as the car hop roller skates over with a burger and shake.

Khatsalano · Sep 12, 2015

I actually don't think there is much of an issue here. Because of tapering, you can get to pretty much full charge rate per SOC very quickly no matter what. Remember, the paired car is also tapering so the window of exposure where you are getting less than your SOC allows, is quite small. There is also the issue of parking skill ... some folks just aren't comfortable backing in between cars or next to a concrete wall. Therefore, they do not care much about the charge rate, but care greatly about the ease of parking and not scratching your car in the next stall.

If minutes are even saved, the convenience of just plugging in and forgetting, trumps. Yes, I usually try to hit up a non-paired charger that is open, but if not, I really don't think there is a measurable difference in life quality.

- K

Saghost · Sep 12, 2015

RDoc said:
IIRC part of auto parking was for Supercharger bays, so... perhaps you just get to the Supercharger lot and let the car automatically select the correct bay and back right in! Then the Snake charger uncoils and, after snapping up any mice or other rodents nearby, plugs in for you just as the car hop roller skates over with a burger and shake.

This is what I'm expecting to see in the future for Autopilot cars. In the mean time and for cars without the capability, the detailed guidance map seems like a wise choice.

Max* · Sep 12, 2015

Saghost said:
This is what I'm expecting to see in the future for Autopilot cars. In the mean time and for cars without the capability, the detailed guidance map seems like a wise choice.

You mean [semi] autonomous, not autopilot.

cpa · Sep 12, 2015

Khatsalano said:
I actually don't think there is much of an issue here. Because of tapering, you can get to pretty much full charge rate per SOC very quickly no matter what. Remember, the paired car is also tapering so the window of exposure where you are getting less than your SOC allows, is quite small. There is also the issue of parking skill ... some folks just aren't comfortable backing in between cars or next to a concrete wall. Therefore, they do not care much about the charge rate, but care greatly about the ease of parking and not scratching your car in the next stall.

If minutes are even saved, the convenience of just plugging in and forgetting, trumps. Yes, I usually try to hit up a non-paired charger that is open, but if not, I really don't think there is a measurable difference in life quality.

- K

No argument from me on this! When I am on a road trip, I look forward to the Supercharger breaks. So what if it takes 45 minutes instead of 35? I generally budget about 45 minutes for each Supercharger stop on my route, even though I know that I will usually be ready to go in around 30-35 minutes.

However, many people do not share this same sort of attitude. They want to get in, charge, and get back on the road as quickly as possible. Ten minutes to them might as well be ten hours.

Stoneymonster · Sep 12, 2015

Max* said:
You mean [semi] autonomous, not autopilot.

Nope. From the current website...

When approaching a Supercharger station, Model S automatically parks in an open stall.

Promises, promises...

jerry33 · Sep 12, 2015

Stoneymonster said:
Nope. From the current website...

When approaching a Supercharger station, Model S automatically parks in an open stall.

Promises, promises...

"Open stall" is not the same as "optimum stall". But really, on our last trip (20 SC each way) the "enough range" notification for daytime charges was usually five or ten minutes (although we actually stayed longer not wanting to push it).

artsci · Sep 12, 2015

cpa said:
I suggested this over a year ago on Tesla Motors' forum. What I think would be cooler would be to have the newer stalls with the lighted TESLA logo to be able to have different colors. All green on a stall would indicate maximum power. All red on a stall would be inoperable or unavailable. Then to differentiate among the various stages of reduced power, have the the following:

TESL [green] A [yellow] reduced power at around 80%
TES [green] LA [yellow] reduced power at around 60%
TE [green] SLA [yellow] reduced power at around 40%
T [green] ESLA [yellow] reduced power at around 20%.

This could be a little tricky on a bright day, and the older installations would have to be retrofitted with the newer lighted ones.

What strikes me as utter nonsense is Tesla's suggestion, "To maximize power, park at a Supercharger with a car that is nearly done charging."

How on earth are we to be able to tell that the red S85D is nearly done, but the white 70D is not? Some layouts of the charging are consecutive (1A-1B-2A-2B) while others are sequential (1A-2A-1B-2B.) So, we pull up at an 8-stall Supercharger, and we find that 6/8 are in use. Do we drive in and canvass the owners who are still around? We pull into stall 3B, look for 3A, and the owner is absent. 2A is also available. Owner at 2B is present, and he says that he has 5-10 minutes more. So as we get into our car to move to 2A, someone else pulls up to charge and parks at 2A. Curses!

A few times (Ft. Tejon, Rancho Cucamonga) I have encountered congestion and asked the owners still present how long they have been plugged in and how much power they are pulling. The owners were clueless about the power draw (had MPH instead of kW) and were not clear as to how long they had been charging, or for how long they were going to charge. "Our battery is at 122 miles, and I think I will charge to 235 or more." [Sigh.]

Suggestions such as what Tesla promotes on their website are nice, but likely have not been experienced in real life by those making them. There just is no substitute for life's experiences!

Danal and I can probably help Tesla with this

David99 · Sep 12, 2015

cpa said:
However, many people do not share this same sort of attitude. They want to get in, charge, and get back on the road as quickly as possible. Ten minutes to them might as well be ten hours.

It depends on your trip. When I'm on my own and just need one Supercharger on that trip I don't care. But if you take longer trips with the entire family, especially with kids, trust me, every stop and every minute makes it more painful. On long trips they just want to get it over with.

Max* · Sep 12, 2015

Khatsalano said:
I actually don't think there is much of an issue here. Because of tapering, you can get to pretty much full charge rate per SOC very quickly no matter what. Remember, the paired car is also tapering so the window of exposure where you are getting less than your SOC allows, is quite small. There is also the issue of parking skill ... some folks just aren't comfortable backing in between cars or next to a concrete wall. Therefore, they do not care much about the charge rate, but care greatly about the ease of parking and not scratching your car in the next stall.

If minutes are even saved, the convenience of just plugging in and forgetting, trumps. Yes, I usually try to hit up a non-paired charger that is open, but if not, I really don't think there is a measurable difference in life quality.

- K

Not sure I agree. I arrived at Delaware, 2 of 4 stars were taken. If I wasn't paired I'd need 10 mins charge to get home based on the trip tab), first SpC said one hour and thirty minutes (can't remember if that was to get home or for a 90% charge). My wife wasn't pleased. Second SpC said 30 mins (same metric as the first one).

So I got "lucky" and only needed to waste an extra 20 mins due to taper.

- - - Updated - - -

Stoneymonster said:
Nope. From the current website...

When approaching a Supercharger station, Model S automatically parks in an open stall.

Promises, promises...

Open, not least charging time.

Saghost · Sep 12, 2015

Max* said:
Open, not least charging time.

Granted. But if the car has to correctly identify and locate an unoccupied SpC stall and position itself in the right place in the stall, adding something up front where it reaches out to the SpC controller and asks it which stall it should park in is trivial by comparison, and adding a priority order in the SpC controller not much harder.
Walter

Stoneymonster · Sep 12, 2015

Max* said:
Not sure I agree. I arrived at Delaware, 2 of 4 stars were taken. If I wasn't paired I'd need 10 mins charge to get home based on the trip tab), first SpC said one hour and thirty minutes (can't remember if that was to get home or for a 90% charge). My wife wasn't pleased. Second SpC said 30 mins (same metric as the first one).

So I got "lucky" and only needed to waste an extra 20 mins due to taper.

- - - Updated - - -

Open, not least charging time.

Max, you stated this required full or semi-autonomy. That's what I'm responding to.

Max* · Sep 12, 2015

You're right, it COULD be done with just AP. BUT, I expect people to be pretty disappointed when self parking come out.

I don't expect it to be autopilot enough (I.e. I bet you'll still have to do the lining up at least somewhat), and there's no way with AP the car will tell you which stall to occupy and park there. It'll park where you tell it to park.

And Walter is correct, choosing the stall doesn't have to be relatedto AP at all. They could tell us that now.

So, I don't see this rolling out with AP. I can see it rolling out in general, at some point, but I bet the car will tell you to use stall 3, you'll have to line up to stall 3 and the car will park in stall 3. I can see with semi autonomous driving the car can choose the shortest wait time stall for you and parks there automatically.

Time will tell.

Stoneymonster · Sep 12, 2015

Sure. This is Tesla after all. No one can be sure of what they mean and if they mean it.

RDoc · Sep 12, 2015

Saghost said:
Granted. But if the car has to correctly identify and locate an unoccupied SpC stall and position itself in the right place in the stall, adding something up front where it reaches out to the SpC controller and asks it which stall it should park in is trivial by comparison, and adding a priority order in the SpC controller not much harder.
Walter

I agree, although I wouldn't be surprised if that information wasn't already being sent back to Tesla in more or less real time so the only issue might be getting the information back to the car.

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