Not Perpetual Motion

Larry93535 said:

The current Scientific American has an article, page 26, of interest: "Water, Water Everywhere".
Shown is a small motor running on the so often proposed principle of the over-balanced wheel.
It is not a perpetual motion device, a true motor.
~Larry

Click to expand...

I tried googling this and all I get is a video about dowsing. I can't find it even on their own web site.

This thread and first posts needs some context to make sense.

Did Scientific American propose a perpetum mobile?

Off topic for this off topic post, but I have had *three* conversations with people wondering when electric cars will just use the wind to recharge the batteries. The "wind" the car experiences while travelling at speed that is.

austinEV said:

Off topic for this off topic post, but I have had *three* conversations with people wondering when electric cars will just use the wind to recharge the batteries. The "wind" the car experiences while travelling at speed that is.

Click to expand...

I get the same people (supposedly they are engineers even!!!) that ask why there isn't a generator that charges your battery while you drive?
uh...
electrolytes ...it's what plants crave

Mr. McGuire: I want to say one word to you. Just one word.
Benjamin: Yes, sir.
Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?
Benjamin: Yes, I am.
Mr. McGuire: Alternators.

austinEV said:

Off topic for this off topic post, but I have had *three* conversations with people wondering when electric cars will just use the wind to recharge the batteries. The "wind" the car experiences while travelling at speed that is.

Click to expand...

It happens all the time, wind turbine, or even heard adding an alternator... :crying:

Anyway, this thread needs a picture...

Zextraterrestrial said:

I get the same people (supposedly they are engineers even!!!) that ask why there isn't a generator that charges your battery while you drive?
uh...
electrolytes ...it's what plants crave

Click to expand...

I avoid the topic at car shows, only because my experience is that people get irate when you try to explain it. Instead, I say - once - "the car uses it when you're slowing down, but if you want to move, the energy you put into making the car move is greater than the energy you recover by attaching a generator". If they try to argue any further than that - which happens an astonishing 50% of the time - I say "You know, you might be on to something. You should contact Tesla."

There's no sense in arguing it. It's like the people that engage you at a car show and attempt to throw you the standard lines from the 2012 election. I had someone trying to pick a fight over Tesla at a minor league baseball game / car show, and he was getting more irate that I told him "I can't argue with your superior intellect... have a great day."

FlasherZ said:

There's no sense in arguing it. It's like the people that engage you at a car show and attempt to throw you the standard lines from the 2012 election. I had someone trying to pick a fight over Tesla at a minor league baseball game / car show, and he was getting more irate that I told him "I can't argue with your superior intellect... have a great day."

Click to expand...

Yeah, I've had that same thing happen when people think they have some brainstorm of an idea to attach an alternator/generator to the wheels to feed the battery. You're right, 50% of the time people catch on pretty quick -- the other 50% are dead-set in their notions, I eventually say something like "and you don't think the engineers at Tesla already thought of that???"


I had the exact same problem with my Delorean at car shows. Everyone's an expert and think it's powered by a Ford motor, the body is aluminum, that there's cocaine in the tires, or make the same flux capacitor or time travel joke that everyone makes -- to which I always respond "ha ha, that's funny!! I haven't heard that joke since next week!". At which point 50% of the people actually get the joke, the other half walk away scratching their heads.

austinEV said:

Off topic for this off topic post, but I have had *three* conversations with people wondering when electric cars will just use the wind to recharge the batteries. The "wind" the car experiences while travelling at speed that is.

Click to expand...

While I was charging my car at the Delaware supercharger, I had a stranger ask why Tesla Motors didn't attach an electric generator to the wheels to generate the electricity to drive the car. He even went as far as to insist he had built an electric cart off this principal, and used that cart to drive around his neighborhood. 9_9

austinEV said:

Off topic for this off topic post, but I have had *three* conversations with people wondering when electric cars will just use the wind to recharge the batteries. The "wind" the car experiences while travelling at speed that is.

Click to expand...

Believe it or not, this was actually incorporated into the concept design of the mitsubishi i-miev for a short time. Astoundingly stupid.



Concept-Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport Preview | J.D. Power

Maybe should give them the benefit of the doubt and assume those fans are meant to provide charging power when the car is parked outside on a windy day. Provided they do not add significant weight or aerodynamic drag at speed. The solar panels certainly encourage outside parking. I'd be curious to see the powered generated from a week outside with average winds of 15 knots. Could you see 10 miles of range, or would it be less than 1?

ERP said:

Maybe should give them the benefit of the doubt and assume those fans are meant to provide charging power when the car is parked outside on a windy day. Provided they do not add significant weight or aerodynamic drag at speed. The solar panels certainly encourage outside parking. I'd be curious to see the powered generated from a week outside with average winds of 15 knots. Could you see 10 miles of range, or would it be less than 1?

Click to expand...

Can't buy that theory. They would only generate power if the car were facing into the wind, and with the size of them, almost no power at all. To generate any significant power from those tiny turbines would take hurricane like winds. Even then it would be such a small amount of power it would be pointless. Why have them on the front to screw up the aerodynamics of the car if they are only to be used when stationary? This addition must have been from the marketing team, not the engineering team, at least I would hope that.

DavidB said:

While I was charging my car at the Delaware supercharger, I had a stranger ask why Tesla Motors didn't attach an electric generator to the wheels to generate the electricity to drive the car. He even went as far as to insist he had built an electric cart off this principal, and used that cart to drive around his neighborhood. 9_9

Click to expand...

Of course! He uses an 8 HP Briggs & Stratton to drive the axle, and then an alternator attached to each wheel provides power that drives an electric motor, also attached to the axle.

ERP said:

Maybe should give them the benefit of the doubt and assume those fans are meant to provide charging power when the car is parked outside on a windy day. Provided they do not add significant weight or aerodynamic drag at speed. The solar panels certainly encourage outside parking. I'd be curious to see the powered generated from a week outside with average winds of 15 knots. Could you see 10 miles of range, or would it be less than 1?

Click to expand...

You couldn't generate what you would lose with just hauling the gear.

- - - Updated - - -

DavidB said:

While I was charging my car at the Delaware supercharger, I had a stranger ask why Tesla Motors didn't attach an electric generator to the wheels to generate the electricity to drive the car. He even went as far as to insist he had built an electric cart off this principal, and used that cart to drive around his neighborhood. 9_9

Click to expand...

Well, the better answer for that one is ... they did. The regenerative breaking is this exact thing. If an angel starts flying behind your car and pushes it enough to overcome wind resistance and other friction your energy meter would turn green and you would charge the battery while you drive. The problem is you need energy input via the angel for this scheme to work. But the HARDWARE is all there, which is kind of amazing.

DavidB said:

While I was charging my car at the Delaware supercharger, I had a stranger ask why Tesla Motors didn't attach an electric generator to the wheels to generate the electricity to drive the car. He even went as far as to insist he had built an electric cart off this principal, and used that cart to drive around his neighborhood. 9_9

Click to expand...

FlasherZ said:

Of course! He uses an 8 HP Briggs & Stratton to drive the axle, and then an alternator attached to each wheel provides power that drives an electric motor, also attached to the axle.

Click to expand...

If only he was also joking! I couldn't tell if he had actually built the cart & hadn't figured out why the range wasn't very good, or if he was lying about having built the cart but was convinced the concept would work. I suspect the former.